9 weeks old - breast aversion - loosing my mind

[MarlaSinger2017]

Hi All,
I think I just need some advice/direction how to manage breast aversion/reflux/upset tummy?

I have 9 weeks old DD, we had our struggles to start off breastfeeding as her latch was very painful in the beginning and I have fast let down (possibly oversupply as well, can’t tell). It’s not like it was all perfect after 9 weeks, but we were managing.

She’s just had her jabs and rotavirus vaccine last week and since then breastfeeding is an utter nightmare.
First 3 days after vaccinations she’d only feed when asleep or drowsy, and not that often as I guess she didn’t have much appetite, which I expected to happen.

But we’re reaching day 7 and there’s not much improvement, if not getting worse as she’s definitely hungry, but just won’t take a breast when awake at all or she’s sucking until let down and then stops feeding.
She only eats when asleep or drowsy during the day, or being tricked with dummy first and then I just swap that for the boob.
She won’t feed in laid back or cross cradle position at all, she’s arching her back and pulling away (new skills with her discovering her hands).
She feeds side lying mainly, but it’s also quite acrobatic as she won’t be on her side initially, but on her back with only tilted head. I have a blanket under her that I wrap around with her when she starts sucking.
Her latch went downhill and probably not helping if she has reflux/upset tummy, but if I try to re-latch - that’s the end of feeding.

For comfort or naps - I just give her dummy and she seems ok with it…

She seems to be making just enough wet/dirty nappies, and she’s happy for her play time between naps or bath time.
She does get upset to be kept upright after feeds for burping and prefers lying on her back - which makes me think it’s not reflux?

This new feeding routine is just exhausting and worrying as it doesn’t feel right and neither of us is enjoying it ☹️

Any advice/ideas how to help her?

@Superscientist
She’s growing big as she was 3.9kg at birth and 5.6kg at her 6 week checkup..
My expressed milk in the fridge seems to have about 10-15% watery part and the rest is thick layer of fat 😂

Indeed I have stretchy sling, I’m just really rubbish at putting this thing on, but after your message I tried today for the first time.
She got 20mins nap in it and I got the laundry going and sweated like a horse.
We will try again tomorrow. She seems snuggly and comfy in that, but then just straighten her body up out of nowhere and that was the end of it…

Her latch is definitely terrible. My nipple is all compressed, not lipstick shape but evenly just flat squashed.
She doesn’t keep the deep latch even when she gets there, so just wondering if reflux could also cause some issues in her mouth?

She does make the twitch like she’s trying to sit up when on my lap and then makes sour face, she coughs now like ‘excuse me’ kind of cough when lying flat and after a while starts whining and crying.
So I guess this is what silent reflux is?

At least she sleeps on me soundly. Just cannot position her at any known position or angle for feeds (laid back is the worse, but she seems ok to sleep on my like that) 🤷‍♀️

My HVs try to be helpful, assessed her for tongue tie (but then sent me to try privately divide the posterior TT that she has),
encouraged me to keep good spirits, support the issue by recording my worries and informed the GP - but none of it brought my DD any relief so far..

I signed up for lactation support group, but might also try LC privately on 1:1 session at home.
Really wondering if positioning could be that bad to cause us this mess? I did a lot of laid back feeding and allowed her to latch on her own.. and I guess she did the best she could 😣

She does have 5-6 nappies per day which seem heavy enough.

Most important is plenty of wet and dirty nappies so that is great.

Second tonnes of skin to skin.

And sadly maybe worth trialling dairy and soy if mucus nappies persist with tummy ache symptoms.

Worth calling the national BF helpline to talk it over? Pop to a local group?

To people suggesting FF bottles…. OP is asking for support with BF, not FF.

Imagine someone on here asking for support with FF and a poster saying ‘just give them the breast’

Re: oversupply/delatching at let down - have you tried hand expressing first to trigger let down and get rid of initial fast flow and then latching her?

Also reverse pressure softening if your boobs are hard from oversupply.

Flipple technique for deeper latch? Koala hold for reflux?

Not if the mother wants to breastfeed her little girl!

I wonder if stopping the dummy would help?
Maybe she's swallowing air?

Has she been assessed by a lactation consultant for oral ties? Can cause feeding difficulties and latch issues but also discomfort? And I agree the national infant feeding helpline, they’re a great resource.

I had different breast feeding issues but I was on the verge of giving up, no one I saw through the NHS helped. I saw a private lactation consultant and they sorted the issue. She completely transformed my experience of breastfeeding. So id really recommended that.

Is there a reason you haven't tried a bottle? Are you dead set against it?

Is there a reason you haven't tried a bottle?

I imagine that's because she wants to breastfeed.

@TweedleTarmac
Thanks for the suggestions, I tried hand expressing and can get good flow of milk spraying with every squeeze. But perhaps, I’m not doing it long enough? Would there be a point when it starts “letting down” by itself without hand stimulation? Or is it me expressing insufficient volume out?

I did block feeding to manage oversupply - wasn’t too hard with DD feeding every 5hrs from one breast only.
I don’t get engorged, just a bit more tense in the breast, tingling and random leaking.
But the breast is soft, I can easily compress it for her to latch.

We did skin to skin all day yesterday, it calms her down and stops frantic arching before feeds, but her latch is just terrible..not too painful for me, but she clicks, smacks, doesn’t keep the seal, and when I take her off to re-latch it takes up to an hour as she seems so uncomfortable.

I book group lactation support for after the weekend.

I’m already on diary free diet (4 days today), don’t think I have soy as we cook at home from basic ingredients, but will pay attention to the labels.

@TheBroonOneAndTheWhiteOne
I thought of dummy being an issue, but she’s happy with the dummy 😣 she doesn’t even suck it much, just keep in her mouth and flutter. Without dummy I have no idea how to feed her - she keeps dummy, calm down, relax and then let go dummy and take the nipple.

@DC285
Yes, we were at the feeding clinic and apparently she has good tongue movements and only small posterior TT. We got ENT referral for re-assessment, but this has a long waiting list now apparently.
We were also checked by qualified HV who added to that a bit of bubble palate and suggested contacting private practitioners to re-assess if this posterior TT is sth worth cutting rather than waiting for ENT.

She always leaves my nipples blanched, but it doesn’t bother me anymore, so assumed it’s sorted for her as well 😣

@KatMansfield6
Would you mind sharing your issue?
I saw many LCs with my son - in group meetings and some of them privately. Some are very knowledgeable and helpful, but it lasts only until they’re around 🙄
Some are just offering more of moral support and not really solving the issue.

@ThejoyofNC
I’m not against bottles. I expressed some milk yesterday and tried the bottle - she didn’t take it either.
Just don’t really see how the bottle would help?
I'm not starving her - I carry her all day and get her to feed in the end the best as I can.

It’s just a huge struggle and if it’s caused by reflux/allergy - can’t see how bottle would help here?
For bf at least I know in theory how this should feel/look like, I’m clueless about bottle feeding.

I was about to suggest CMPA as this was our issue, mucus was a big clue. Even when we had so much mucus and blood, her face and bum were raw and arching whilst feeding, the paediatrician did nothing. Cutting dairy from my diet completely solved it.
I'd try cutting out dairy from your diet, but as the PP says, be strict.

@Dullday
thanks! I’m dairy free 4 days now and counting.
Her poo improved since Wednesday - it’s more yellowish, some seeds are back, and mucous was just a few strings on Thursday.
That was only 24hrs dairy free, so not sure this was a solution, but the poos progressively get better, also less acidic in smell, more milky smell.

But then again - I carry her, hold her, spend 100% of my time making her comfortable, and trying to feed her more frequently and for longer - rather than her doing it every 5hrs for few minutes.

It’s relentless… and I don’t feel like I’m solving anything, just ploughing through day by day…