Can't get a let down in the evening

[bumperlicious]

My old problem has reared it's ugly head, I can't get a let-down for the bed time feed. Part of it is my fault, having been out a few evenings and not expressed (or tired and not been able to). Whereas before it just made DD very fussy now it is making her bite me

She gets very impatient for it and tonight we lay on the sofa and she kept going from one boob to the other trying to get something out, to no avail. In the end DH fed her cow's milk (she is nearly a year) which he has had to do for the past few nights. It's becoming a vicious cycle now, the less I feed the less I can feed.

Any top tips? I know the basics, breast massage (never really had any success with it, maybe doing it wrong?), visualisation etc. but it's not working. It's really frustrating for all of us and causing friction between me and DH. Should I just give us the ghost on the evening feed?

Message withdrawn

Right, when she latches on, is she sucking and then pulling off in frustration?

It's possible that you are really tense in the evenings and are not exactly looking forward to the prospect of getting bitten (quite understandable).

Can you try taking five really deep breaths when she latches on? That might be enough to release some oxygen and oxytocin?

Alternatively warm flannels on the boobs (much more effective than breast massage IME). Alternatively (and you won't enjoy this experience much) you probably need to try the rugby hold for a few evenings - she'll drain your boobs fast (and it may be uncomfortable) but it should get things flowing quickly.

IS this the early evening (bedtime) feed, or a later "dreamfeed" (10-11pm)?

It's about 7.30 feed.

WMC we try every single position! She's nearly a year so will feed in all kinds of weird positions short of standing on our heads. I just felt so sorry for her tonight she kept grabbing one boob, then the other, then swapping back. She was pulling off in frustration. She gets tired and loses patience. I've had this trouble in the past, exactly the same.

The flannel thing is a good idea, I'll try that.

I've tried pumping all evening but nothing.

Have you tried giving her some ovaltine first (don't laugh) I gave DD ovaltine made with milk when I was sick when she was 10 months old and it was warm and sweet and she sucked the entire sippy down and then wasn't as desperate when she tried to latch on.

No I hadn't tried that, but I have thought of giving her a milk feed first for the same reason. I think that's what I'll try tonight. Thanks WMMC.

Hi Bumper
A couple of thoughts.

At 7.30pm, have you eaten yourself? If you dine after the kids have gone to bed, you might not be making as much milk as you could if you eat an hour or so before your feed. Also, try to get a drink & biscuit in and put your feet up for 10mns a little before too, to relax & rest yourself. Perhaps you could read a book with your little one whilst you do this.

If she is frustrated with the speed of your let-down, perhaps you could give her a little drop of cow's milk first, to sate her thirst/appetite, then let her have some boobjuice for comfort/its goodness afterwards.

To increase milk supply, offer from both breasts at each feed, and you can offer the "third side" (ie. go back to the first breast after the second) too.

There are various foods that are galactagogues (help you increase your milk supply). You will find a list on www.kellymom.com.

At the end of the day, I wouldn't beat yourself up about her having cow's milk if she is a month short of a year - it isn't going to hurt her, especially if she has a good diet the rest of the time. If you are keen to breastfeed into the second year though, you could keep persevering with the breastpump to try and increase your supply in the evenings. If you are feeding because of the bond you feel when you feed, you probably won't be so keen on offering the EBM in a bottle or beaker, but if you are feeding more for the nutritional benefits, then perhaps you could pump first thing in the morning, when you are rested and have better milk.

Hope this helps.

Don't have much more to say - it sounds like you've been given some really good advice, and I'll be taking note of a few things myslef. But wanted to say again I'm sorry you're having troubles, and try not to stress and I'm sure it just makes it worse. I know from expressing at work that sometimes there'll be nothing there and I can pump and pump and get het up and frustrated but it does no good. But come back an hour later and it floods out. I know that's not much help when you want to feed DD before bed, you can't come back an hour later, but maybe give it a quarter hour and try to destress (and give her some mikl/you eat some choc etc as suggested in the meantime?) and then trying again?

Thanks for all the advice. Tonight I tried hot flannels, deep breathing, laying down and feeding cow's milk first, and then trying to feed her half way through. Bless her she tried, and kept swapping boobs again but nothing. I've been trying to express at night too, nothing either. She has fed ok during the day, it just seems to be that last feed. I just feel that if I can do it once, then I know I can do it and it will be easier the next night and we can build up from there, but with each night that she doesn't feed there is less and less hope. We usually eat before she feeds, so that isn't the problem.

I don't know why it is bothering me so much, it's just that when I am at work I will only be giving her one feed. Plus I just feel like I should give her her last feed before bed, BM is far more nutritious than cow's milk. I feel like I am failing her

I am wary of try anything to increase supply as I am at work 3 days, but I could go back to expressing again if it worked. I've got some Mother's Milk Plus tincture, I'll try that tonight !

I took fenugreek to increase supply and I think it worked. And please don't feel you've failed - you've fed DD for almost a year, which is brilliant!!! I had similar problems when she was tiny that she just couldn't get enough/I didn't let down last thing. So for some months she had a try at BF followed by a bottle of formula at bedtime, I felt a bit guilty, but there really are worse things you know.

You haven't failed at all - only 1% of mothers are BFing at 6 months, so to last to almost a year you have done a magnificent job.

Often when BFing mums return to work, their babies wake at night for extra feeds (known as "night cycling" I seem to remember). It can be tiring for you, but if you want to continue with that bond and the nutrition/protection offered by breast milk, you could offer a night feed if she wakes. However, that could disrupt sleeping patterns if they are well established.

But on the whole, would concur with JQ of the Sewers, you've done really well, and at a year a drop of cow's milk is not going to hurt - your DD will be getting lots of nutrition from the lovely food you are giving her too.

Good luck, and let us know how you get on.

Hi Bumperlicious

you sound determined so I'm sure you'll succeed in sorting this out ! I had a similar problem a few months back when my baby was tiny and the last feed was at 10/11pm, I was just too knackered to have much milk for him and an earlier bedtime was the solution. However, I'm not suggesting that for you as 7.30 sounds like a good bedtime but perhaps you are still too knackered to feed at this time? Is there any chance of you having a nap or lie down before you need to feed? If you could rest for an hour or so before feedtime you might find you have more milk and therefore easier let-down? How about lying in bed to feed also, take your time and maybe start off feeding her in bed at 6.30 before she gets really hungry for it. The relaxed stimulation may get things going in the milk department .

Good luck and as the others say, don't stress over it you've done brilliantly already .