Help - having a few wobbles, ds turning bfing into a bit of a nightmare!

[BouncingTurtle]

DS is 23 weeks today, past week or so he has been feeding less during the day.
Up to 2 nights ago his feeding pattern has been

7pm feed and bed
10:30pm I go to bed and feed him while he is asleep
1-2am feed
3-4am feed (then into bed with us as he won't settle)
5-6am awake and wanting to play.
However last couple of nights he has done the following.

7pm feed and bed
9pm feed
10:30pm I go to bed
12:30am feed (into bed with us again)
2am feed
3:30am feed
5-6am awake and wanting to play.

It is becoming a battle to feed him during the day, some time he'll latch on, stay on until he is satisfied. But other times, he'll complain he is hungry, latches on, sucks a couple of times then pulls off to look around, but sometimes he just pulls off and starts crying (like he did at the picnic on Saturday, Indith & StealthPolarBear).
I guess a lot of it is developmental, he is more interested in the world around him than eating, and because he is feeding less during the day he'll want more during the night.
I've tried offering him the breast frequently but if he doesn't want to feed he won't!
Napwise, he has generally has about an hour in the morning and a couple of hours at lunchtime/early afternoon. Sometimes he'll have a bit more than this.
It has also been quite hot as well, our room is pretty warm, have him down to a pyjama top and nappy with just a sheet and a light blanket, which he proceeds to kick off!

Would appreciate some advice, experience
and reassurance that this won't last forever, as it is seriously stressing me out!
BTW the most ds has ever slept since he was born is 7pm - 1am, and he has only down that a couple of times. And I am knackered!

Thanks! Have joined Aitch's BLW forum, found it so useful!
He has been teething, but it's not been too bad, unlike the previous week when he was grabbing the bonjela!

bless him It'll get easier again BT, once this little 5 months blip is over.

We did a hybrid of BLW and spoonfeeding (for things like breakfast and soups). Now i have to load up her fork, give it to her, she pretends to stab the food herself and then eats.....meanwhile I load up the second fork...very cute. And she was one on Thursday

See, this is why I've never bought into this whole 'breastfeeding is the only way to keep your baby healthy' and 'formula is dangerous' crap.

I mean, really, how can it be healthy for a five month old baby to sleep for a maximum of six hours a day?

As for the ones that don't gain weight, I'm sure they're really healthy ...

thank you for that valuable contribution bobbysmum
jamgirl the second is the same age as turtleboy TB - she's leading me a merry dance I can tell you, Just when you think she's got the 3 hr stretches at night cracked, off she goes again. I have to feed her in a dim room at night because she's so nosy,the slightest thing attracts her attention, she's not ready for solids yet (tongue thrust hasn't completely gone) but i've a feeling she'll take to food like a duck to water when the time comes. all I've been able to do is have her in bed with me and let her help herself lol! It doesn't help being a night owl, so going to bed early is out of the question.

Bobbysmom - NO-ONE has said that 'breastfeeding is the only way to keep your baby healthy' and 'formula is dangerous'
I suggest you keep your nose out of something which you know nothing about.
My son is perfectly healthy and gaining weight nicely, thank you for asking.
And no where did I say he is only getting 6 hours of sleep. You cannot extrapolate from my timings how much sleep he has had since the times are approximate and I haven't stated feeding times.

Had a better night last night, he has dropped the 12:30 feed. He did wake up, but DH put him in bed with us. He then had a feed at 2:30am, and then at 5:45. I made DH get up with him at that point

bobbysmum - what an unpleasant, unkind and (frankly) ignorant comment.

Please go away.

I feel sorry for people like Bobbysmum who have been so taken in by the formula marketing machine that they miss out on the joy and intimacy of bf, as well as the health benefits for both mother and baby.

Just as there is Sex and Relationship education in schools, there should also be infant feeding education, to address the fearful ignorance which underlies Bobbysmum's opinion on the matter.

Not only should there be education, but women should bf more in public. I did it as much as I could, but unfortunately my bf days are over.

I would say he is probably more than ready for solids myself . As you are getting no sleep I definately think it will improve things for you.
I also think feeding in a boring environment during the day might help. No more to add except lots of sympathy.

I already suggested that Tori and no one jumped on me.

BT, no matter what you are told, giving him solids is very, very unlikely to make him sleep any better, especially if you are intending going down the blw route. The amount of food he actually ingests will be minimal. Even if you do traditional weaning it takes a while to build up to a sufficient amount to stave off night time hunger pangs. If you don't want to wean before 6mo, then don't!

I felt pressured into it because my ds2 didn't sleep and it made no difference at all.

I also remember him going through a terrible phase at around 5mo which sounds very like the one you are going through. Just when I thought I couldn't take any more, he stopped it and went back to feeding calmly again. It is tough but there's lots of good tips on here for getting through it without resorting to solids if you don't want to.

Olihan thats a fair enough point, that not all babies will sleep better. However, I would like to do a survey on this because I bet more people find it helps than don't. If food stays in the gut for longer and the baby feels full for longer, the natural side effect will usually mean less frequent feeding.

BouncingTurtle: I've had a similar experience with DD, now almost 7 months. She is often too distracted to feed properly - until she eventually sucks long enough to get the let-down going. She would also sometimes start crying when I tried to feed her, which was really distressing. She doesn't do it so much now. I've worked out I think (but can't be sure) it's when she's tired - she's too tired to suck hard to get the milk, she just wants to sleep (in her case she wants her dummy not the boob).

Does your DS tend to cry instead of feeding properly more often in the evening when he's tired? And you don't have this problem at night when he's not over-tired? He's quite young to only have two naps a day - could you fit in three?

In my experience with DS1 (now almost 3), waking for night feeds (once they're no longer newborns) is less about hunger and more about needing a prop to get back to sleep. He used to wake to bf every two hours until he was 8 months and I discovered the Baby Whisperer books (check out the website www.babywhisperer.com) and did some sleep training. DD still wakes for a night feed, usually at around 4am, but once I can be confident she's not waking through hunger (when she's having plenty of solids and enough bf in the daytime), then I'm planning to do the same training with her.

I think you may well be right, Tori. I know Dd didn't sleep through until she was established on solids but it took a good few weeks until she'd built up to enough quantity through the day to push her through the night. Ds1 was similar, although he stopped sleeping through at about 17 weeks (weaning age at that time) so we started but it wasn't an immediate 'cure'.

Ds2's problem has actually turned out to be eczema and now it's finally under control he sleeps through fairly consistently.

I still don't think it's a valid reason to wean early though, partly because there are many other reasons why babies don't sleep, partly because it's not an instant fix and mainly because there is too much research against early weaning to want to risk it, just for the sake of a few weeks.

BT, I hope things are better for you both today

tori, I did the first half of my peer supporter training yesterday (with the ABM) and this was one of the points that came up.

The BFC who was running the course said that studies have been done which show that there is no significant link between weaning and sleeping better and that it is probably just co-incidence; ie that the baby would have naturally started sleeping better whether weaned or not. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me might be able to link to those studies.

from my POV, it made no difference with either of my children; one BF one FF.

bobbysmum, I'm not sure what you hoped to achieve with your post . This is a personal thread from someone looking for help and support; not a debate about FF vs BF and I suggest you look at some of the actual debate threads if you feel you have a valid point to make rather than making snide comments here.

Hi and thanks for your comments and help!
Don't worry I am under no illusion that giving him solids will help with his sleep - it hasn't as I already have stated! It was more about getting that extra bit of breast milk in him, when he was obviously hungry but refusing to feed.
But he is enjoying the "novelty factor" of a bit of baby rice once a day so I think I'll continue that and maybe offer him some finger foods - we've offered him odd bits of veg and fruit and he has been giving them a good chew.
He is getting better feeding wise, to be honest I did find feeding him upstairs in a quiet darkened room seem to make no difference, but he is now feeding more calmly in general, though we still have the odd fight!
He generally has a couple of catnaps in the morning, one just around or after lunchtime and another in the afternoon, that isn't always the case.
I do find he is very inconsistent though, I try to make an effort to put him to bed at the same time, though if he seems tired enough I'll put him to be earlier, but sometimes he'll wake at 5am but will go back to sleep, more often than not he'll want to get up and play (like this morning).
The problem is at the moment is I think it is so hot and the heat is making him unsettled and grouchy - he now sleeps in his pyjamas with no bed coverings at all to try and keep him cool!
I'm going to get a vertical cooling fan for our bedroom, my mum has one which she let us use the last time we went to see her - it was roasting hot then!
I think the turning point for us will be when he moves into his own room.
I was very at Bobbysmom's comment - they are the sort of comments that attempt to undermine breastfeeding mums and have a touch of smuggery about them. Fortunately I've done my research with regards to infant feeding, and know that in the long term I'm doing all that I can to safeguard my son's future health, by minimising risk.
Actually it's kind of like the current oil crisis - many people see rising oil crisis and can only see how it affects how much they are paying to fill there cars, when it has much more far reaching consequences on the economy in general. Similarly while infant formula is a perfectly acceptable way to feed your baby (as long as you follow proper preparation instructions) you will be increasing the risk of various illnesses and disorders which may not manifest themselves until adulthood.
Just realised I'm preaching to the converted here