When can we introduce a bottle of expressed milk + why is BF sooooooooo painful

[AAR]

Hi,

DD2 only 6 days but BF is killing me. Boobs are like boulders (huge and hard), nipples bleeding a lot and am trying to keep going, nearly fainted yesterday with the pain of it. Can any one offer any tips. DD doesn't open wide for latch-on and I think one breast is too full for her to get on properly at all, so have tried expressing but this just seems to have increased the amount of milk even more argh....She only feeds for 5mins at a time and then drops off to sleep, so we are a pretty crap team.

Hate throwing away the expressed milk and would like a chance to let nipples recover - so can we introduce a bottle yet? and if not now when? I was rubbish at BF last time round too need to get it right this time, but the pain is too much - bring back wet nurses i say!

apologies for the many typos. baby trying to type with me.

My dd1 was also tongue-tied, I discovered after 6 weeks of agony and bf counsellors and NCT counsellors and "if you do it right it won't hurt" [hmm) advice.

Actually it still hurt with dd3 who I bf for 15 months. And I know I was doing it right, with 3 years experience behind me. but it still hurt. It just did. whatever anyone says. My children had small mouths. Some at least of them were tongue tied. and it hurt.

I think, to be honest, it just does hurt for a lot of people in the early days - but I promise you it does get better. Neither you nor dd are rubbish, you just need as much help and support as you can get your hands on and time. A week ago I was crying every time I even thought about feeding, now I'm almost starting to enjoy it.

not much more to add except...Lansinoh was a godsend for me (also had scabs - got through a full tube in 1 week) - you can get it in Sainsbury's if all else fails.
Have been expressing from 2 weeks and no probs at all (DH gives last feed of day so I can sleep) DD almost 5 weeks and freezer is full of excess milk. Good luck.

AAR, you're not necessarily doing it wrong if it hurts. My DS1 had a great latch but it still hurt like buggery for two weeks. Your nipples aren't used to being sucked on for several hours a day and they need time to adjust. Feeding DS2 didn't hurt at all.

LyraSilvertongue there is no way to prove that. Some babies will happily except food however it comes, some will always refuse a bottle and some will refuse the breast after having one bottle. What has been proven is that more babies under six weeks that are given a bottle will refuse the breast after.

It's a gamble that any parent who offers a bottle takes.

If you are going to use cream rather than milk either use LANISOH or clean your breast before a feed as LANISOH is the only one (apart from BM ) that is edible.

My boss (childless) says it doesn't hurt, but personally I think it's like the first time you go to the gym. You do it right but it's a new experience for your body and it is uncomfortable, but the more you do it the more your body gets used to it and the easier it becomes. Also Oxytocin anticipates, so it starts to release before a feed eventually and that helps you feel better and more comfortable about it.

If you do do cabbage leaves, don't leave them in your bra longer than ten minutes at a time. I don't know exactly what they do, the cold is soothing but a. it's like when you run a finger under a tap, they tell you know more than ten minutes because it will affect your blood flow and b. they tell women who've lost their baby to put cabbage leaves in their bra.

2 of my dd's didn't open their mouths wide enough. With first it was quite a while until I went and got help, and then a while longer for it to stop hurting (she simply got bigger, breasts got more used to it, etc.). With other dd (currently bfing) I let her get in the habit of not opening wide enough. This is because I didn't see a counsellor (sorry, can't spell that word) quickly enough. Do go and see one as soon as possible, and have them observe how you latch baby on, and then give you intensive help to guide you in the latching. The one I saw told me that I need to have baby aligned nipple to nose, and wait until she reaches up with head and drops mouth open enough. You feel silly sitting their like a pickle waving breast about waiting for this kid to open wide enough, but keep trying! Otherwise it will still be uncomfortable for quite a while!
For what it is worth, feeding dd1 was one of the hardest things I have done, but we got through it, and I was so pleased to have done it, and it was lovely in the end.

You know that groove in their top lip? Do the nose to nipple thing and tickle her in that groove with your nipple. That should prompt an open mouth and get her chin up while she tires to latch on.

That may help?

Good luck with the scabs...

Lansinoh is incredible stuff (did everyone know about it but me?)- I have gone from bleeding nipples and large black scabs to almost normal again, in a day. Still engorged, but the latch is a bit less painful, I think I am not patient enough. BFC/Midwife coming on Friday to help (she offered today but we have friends visiting and I didn't fancy waving my boobs round while they looked on!).

Lansinoh is an old lags' veteran mums' secret.
When pg for the first time I was given a half-used tube by a friend with much mysterious tapping of noses etc and was baffled by it till I actually needed the stuff.

AAR - bf counsellor today yes? Let us know how you get on.

I am currently scabby, bleeding and miserable with DC4 having bf the other 3 to a year or so, but with varying amounts of pain in the first 3 weeks. I did express and use bottles with the last 2 DCs as otherwise I'd have had to give up - as fennel said of her experience earlier on the thread. I saw midwives, bf counsellors and used Kamillosan/Lansinoh and every other trick in the book and it still hurt. So I'm of the opinion that anyone who blithely says if "you're doing it right, it won't hurt", is talking cock.

Best wishes, I hope it all improves very soon.

Thanks Duchess (great name btw - I need to choose something better) BFC did come today and was really nice. She thought the latch would improve as DD gets a bit bigger and said to watch for sucking that wasn't really feeding as that will just hurt nipples, also she talked about how not to hold head and just to support at neck - I am kind of doing all this and as everyone posting has said IT STILL HURTS! But she also confirmed that baby looks fine and is doing well so no issue with how much she is getting. Most advice same as what wise women here have said - nose to nipple, tummy to mummy etc and she pointed out that I shouldn't bend over and then sit back as that would pull out nipple - I have a really long back and I think I hunch a lot, so she was suggesting that I bring the baby up high. Boobs seem to be settling - and RHS side is def. working better, though LHS now jets across the room and is causing DD to choke and splutter - DH is worrying that this will cause colic like with DD2. Nips and latch on still painful, but don't feel like screaming. I think I really thought I'd just be able to do it this time, but you really have to learn again along with a new baby. Oh and the Avent nipple shells have really helped with engorgement - I have found expressing by hand too painful - but they have a tendency to leak everywhere. If we keep improving, I might have the technique down by the time we ween her! DD snuffling around so I better go and try again...

Hurrah for todays improvements!

The talk with the BFC all sounds good. On the subject of raising the baby higher, I always put a pillow on my lap and the baby on top.

My RHS is getting a 2-day break (it's in a terrible state and I was not able to bear the pain at last feed and had to stop). So I'm disgorging it either into the bath or using the very gentle Avent hand pump. I open any blocked ducts before pumping with a hot flannel which helps lots. We have been feeding happily from the left though. So that's something!

Ow ow poor you, have you tried the breast shells? it means you don't have to do anything as they give enough pressure to let the milk flow. BFC also suggested hot flannels - which i haven't managed but sounds lovely. Last week I was using a "Mr Bump" cool pack thing of DD1's which was the right size and shape, but a bit stiff - very nice though for the sore bits. Hope the break works - between us we have a fully functioning set of boobs!

arf @ Mr Bump, we have one in the fridge too. I might borrow it!!