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Infant feeding

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Breastfeeding and work

24 replies

Judy1234 · 21/05/2008 15:01

I was thinking about breastfeeding last night and looked out this thing which wrote for LLL a few years ago which I've anonymised.

"The square mile of the City of London, UK, houses one of the most inspiring and interesting business communities in the world. In 2004 it is largely a meritocracy. Whether you are female or male, black or white, you only last if you are good. It is the excellence, the competition, the adrenalin that deals and litigation bring which draws me in to it and makes life exciting. I practise [ XXXX] I have had five children over the last 20 years all of whom I breastfed until at least they were one year old.

Breastfeeding was always going to be something I would love. My mother, who sadly died in 2004, was one of the UK?s first members of the National Childbirth Trust in 1961 when I was born and I would avidly read NCT booklets as a teenager about birth positions and the like. From a young age I had deep maternal urges and was delighted to marry when I was 21...... when my daughter was born 13 months later. I took two weeks? holiday as maternity leave. I felt maternity rights, which, in effect, discriminate, were sexist. They were not consistent with my feminist position so I chose not to exercise them.

ABC who is now 20 was fed nothing but breastmilk. I was expressing it at work with a battery operated breast pump and taking it home each night in an insulated freezer bag with ice pack. I fed her when I was home, before work, as soon as I arrived back and in the evening and night. I recall all those years ago a meeting of a joint venture, a room of 50 people. It was getting late. I told my business contact I had to go home soon to breastfeed (the need was mine, not the baby?s). We wrapped things up fairly quickly. I never found any problems with customers or clients and babies. They have children themselves. It is a connection, not a difficulty.

........... moved to XXX. It was fun and I had our second child soon after. DEF is now 18. Again she was fully breastfed. I took 2 weeks off work when she was born. In all cases I worked until I went into labour. I cycled from the train station whilst having mild contractions the day before she was born. I was 24, young and fit. Pregnancy is not an illness.

I always loved the process of breastfeeding. I remember after the first birth sitting with books on feeding on my right and [ business books] on my left in my bed getting the hang of it. I have never identified with the women who find it hard. Once my babies latched and after the milk came in it was largely an enjoyable thing, not a chore. I only once had mastitis and I remember joking with the doctor over it, that I had been having babies for 14 years and only then right at the tail end of it was there a problem. The twins were still feeding. They were one year old. Antibiotics put it right. I was travelling back from a meeting about 200 miles from London that day and we arranged an NHS Direct doctor?s appointment, the last one, for 10.30pm to which I rushed from the station late at night. Within a day the infection was controlled and feeding continued. It was the only ?problem? that I remember.

Breastfeeding is warm and intimate. I will always remember all those nights I have had feeding every few hours, a small baby close to me. It is a tremendously good way to relax after work, arriving home, your breasts full of milk to sit down with the baby and feel the release of oxytocin as the milk lets down. I was recruited by [ xxx] when I was 5 months pregnant and had two other children under four. I was 26 years old. GHI, who is now 16, fed well and third children have very much to fit in with the others.

We had a nanny who came to our house every day to look after all the children and who left when I or my husband arrived home. In my first year her gross salary was more than my wage but it was a small price to pay for a wonderful 20+ year career thereafter. The investment soon paid off in all kinds of ways. With [child 3] I took 5 weeks off work. Three children under four was the hardest time for us because of lack of sleep and work but working made it easier. Money and power and the ability to buy in help with cleaning and also having a break from the 24/7 demands of small children, can for some women makes things better than staying at home all the time. It can also ensure more equity within a relationship.

City of London firms are very keen to keep their legal staff who cost a lot of money to train. We have in the UK very strict sex discrimination legislation and also parental leave and some paternity leave. What matters is whether you can get done the work you need to do for your clients to the standard required. You eat what you kill and are only as good as your last job. Having children to support is a wonderful incentive to make men and women work harder.

So the children grew older. When the youngest of the first three was at full time school, after 10 years in the City, I [ xxx]. It went tremendously well. What started out as a short experiment led to the last ten years of exciting and intellectually challenging work. I was no longer breastfeeding by then. We moved to a much bigger house in 1997 and I wanted a last child before I was too old. I was 36. Learning I had conceived twin boys was one of the happiest days I have had. They were born in 1998. Now of course things were easier. I was working at home when not out at meetings. I was able to hire a daily nanny to bring the boys to me to breastfeed whenever they needed it. I could feed one at the same time as take a business call sometimes, although usually I would leave the office and sit on the sofa, a twin on a cushion on each side of me. In fact I was dealing with work emails the day after they were born. When I was out I expressed milk. Virtually always however I fed them together, one on each side and if one woke at night I would wake the other and feed him as well. It worked well. I also by that stage had someone to the house every week day morning to do all our washing and cleaning. Domestically and financially things were tremendously easier at 36 than they had been when I had my first child at 22 and had to buy her baby clothes second hand at charity shops ? not that babies care. They just need love and warmth.

There were no problems feeding the twins apart from some soreness before the milk came in on day 4. I had hired an independent midwife, Caroline Flint, to deliver the ?baby? at home but when we learned there would be two of them we decided she and her colleague would deliver them in hospital. However IJK had other ideas and was born upstairs at home. His twin was born 7 hours later in hospital ? two very different and separate labours on the same day; twins born in different London boroughs ? something the births registrar had never had. However LMN?s birth in hospital was good too. A drip speeded up the contractions and he was delivered by my own midwives there. We were home by that evening, all safe and well. The twins were born at 40 weeks exactly, weights 6 pounds 8 and 7 pounds 8 and I am sure they were content (we called them the happy babies) because they were good weights, born when they wanted to come, not induced early and were fed on demand with lots of doting elder siblings to help. Large families are great.

I do recall some nights working until mid night, then they would wake for their mid night feed, feeding them, then coming back to my office to work until 3am, then feed them again, then I would sleep until 6am when it was time to get every one up for school. But those all night sessions are rare and lawyers run on adrenalin. I am afraid those kinds of sessions are actually quite exciting. I feel tremendously privileged to have so many sources of pleasure and excitement in my life, both professional and family related.

Looking at some general issues I breastfed and worked because I love my work. I never considered not working but I always wanted children, very very much. I love spending time with them. I breastfed them because it is right, natural, comfortable, easy, cheap, free, good for babies for all kinds of reasons and good for mothers too. It helped me lose weight after the births - I was always keen to look good and stay slim.

I found it easier with the twins working from home and having them brought to me to feed than when I commuted to the City and had to express milk. That was harder but even then I had no problem leaving my office for 20 minutes to express milk a few times a day. No fellow workers would really have known. [xx] are left to get on with things. I did not inconvenience anyone else at work. It did not disrupt the day any more than had I left for a quick cup of tea. I chose not to make a fuss about it. I just got on with it.

Our then nanny who cared for the children was happy to feed the children my breast milk from a bottle and surprisingly they never confused breast and bottle. Over 20 years of having children I have never once bottle fed a baby so perhaps they could always just associate me with breastfeeding. Obviously I explained before I hired our nanny that the baby was to be breastfed. Most English nannies are happy with that because they learn at college that breast is best.

I was perhaps protected from any negative influences by virtually never meeting other mothers with babies (apart from attending National Child Birth Trust classes when pregnant) so I never saw anyone bottle feeding. I was always happy to breastfeed in front of my family. There is very little that you need to see anyway, although it is impossible to breastfeed twins in the position I did it, when out and about, discreetly. We would lock ourselves in a feeding room if the need arose. It was no problem. My father is a psychiatrist and we were always a fairly open family about nudity and the like. So there were no hang ups there. I had always hoped to be criticised for breastfeeding in public so I could make some point about it but it never happened. Perhaps London is fairly liberal on these matters. Most mothers try to breastfeed in the UK. My sister breastfed her twins until they were at least two.

My decision to breastfeed and work was taken entirely by myself. I did not need a supporter or assistance over it. I just did it and with the twins of course I was working for myself which gives ultimate control and power. I might sometimes work 70 hour weeks but I decide when, where and how.

Advice I would give to other women is first to pursue the most intellectual challenging career that you can. The best advice my father gave us was to pick work we would love to do for the next 40 years. Secondly, it is perfectly possible to have a large family and work in professions such as mine. I have lots of friends in the City of London with large families who work - bankers, consultants, lawyers. Before you marry discuss and agree with your future spouse all these issues. It is that kind of work which makes the rest easier, which makes the hiring of people to help you possible, which means your time with the children can be spent playing, just sitting, watching their faces, cuddling, rather than trying to do too many domestic jobs at the same time.

On the combining work and breastfeeding issue I think the principal way to make it easy is to be good at your job. No one wants to lose a good worker. If you are indispensable and excellent, accommodations can always be made. If you whinge, take time off sick and do bad work then you are not going to advance the cause of women and work. Secondly be reasonable. Provide solutions to an employer, not problems. Scout around. Find a little used room. Decide if it is going to be feasible to have the baby brought in to feed or whether you will express milk. Decide if instead you would rather just breastfeed outside of working hours. It is not an all or nothing decision. Your milk supply would adjust to feeding before work, right after and then through the evening and night although that is not then exclusive breastfeeding and for me would not have been physically comfortable or felt right. Life is full of compromises. Try not to feel guilt whatever compromises you reach.

Check the law in your jurisdiction. In the EU/EEA there is substantial legal protection. Know the position before you approach an employer but remember psychology is the most important thing often, not law. Asking people about things in the right kind of constructive positive way is going to get you a lot further than quoting EU directive numbers at them.

Finally enjoy it all. Breastfeeding has been one of the most pleasurable things I had done. It is warm, comforting, intimate and nothing makes you closer to your child. Never believe anyone who says you cannot work and breastfeed. Women have always worked from the dawn of time and they have always breastfed too."

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cmotdibbler · 21/05/2008 15:12

Xenia - thats exactly the sort of inspirational piece that I was looking for when I was pregnant and knew I would be returning to work 4 months after my baby was born - but I wanted to exclusively breast feed to 6 months. The breast feeding counsellors just tried to tell me that I wouldn't want to go back that early, or full time, which wasn't what I needed to hear.

I've managed to combine work, travelling globally for work and breastfeeding successfully, and have just stopped breastfeeding, 2 weeks before my son was 2, and my only regret is that I never did find a good way to bring milk home from a trip which involved flying.

hunkermunker · 21/05/2008 15:37

Xenia, if you wouldn't mind, can I put your post on my blog, here?

Or would you mind posting it? It's a lovely piece - lots of stuff to think about. Agree with making it as easy for your employer to say yes to you as possible.

How amazing the twins were born in different boroughs! Good story for them!

LadyPenelope · 21/05/2008 15:39

Great post Xenia - very inspiring.

I also continued breastfeeding my 2 dc when I returned to work fulltime at 14 and 12 weeks.

I expressed several times a day - just blocked the time in my diary and got on with it. I don't remember ever being asked, although people did realise over time, and over the year I was doing it, it was good to see other women quietly getting on with it too. Like you say, it's like going off to make a cup of tea, or nip downstairs for a ciggarette - and needs no much fanfare.

Was easier the second time - by then my office had a designated nursing room which made it much easier rather than the fuss of finding a room with a lock etc.

LadyPenelope · 21/05/2008 15:42

One thing to add - agree that women should feel good about the compromises they decide to make. I wanted to exclusively bf my ds - but at about 20 weeks I couldn't express enough during the day to keep up with him. So for a few months, on week days he had some formula. When he started some solids/started to drop a feed he was exclusively bf again.

It was what it was.

BellaBear · 21/05/2008 15:49

that was really interesting - thank you

MARGOsBeenPlayingWithMyNooNoo · 21/05/2008 16:00

Wow - that's all I can manage. Amazing.

Judy1234 · 21/05/2008 18:19

hm, yes post it on your blog. What is quite sad is LLL were writing a book about women and breastfeeding and that was my contribution but at the end of the day they cut it, so it was never published. On here I took out some identifying bits.

I was quite put out last night with a man whose marriage seemed, from what he said, to have broken up because of a dispute over breastfeeding. I felt entirely on his wife's side which I am sure wasn't his aim in recounting the tale.

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popsycal · 21/05/2008 18:37

Wow Xenia!

I fed ds2 whilst I worked. Slightly different for me though. I went back when he was 6 months - fed him mornings and evenings and expressed at lunchtimes at work and at home in the evenings.

When he was almost 1, I reduced my hours to 2 days a week and continued to express on my work days until he was close to 18 months so he could have a small bottle whilst I was at work. I didn't need to express by that point, but continued to do so.

I fed him until 2 weeks before his 3rd birthday. After 18 months, he just fed when I was at home.

It can be done!

popsycal · 21/05/2008 18:39

Just to add, I also plan to do the same with ds3 after I return to work. This time round, I plan to express until he is a year - which coincides with the summer holiday 2009 by whiuch time he will be fully established on solids.

chipmonkey · 21/05/2008 18:57

I think my expressing at work with ds1 ( also with a battery operated pump) did encourage other colleagues who had babies after me to do the same thing. Others at the time who had breastfed but given up because they were returning to work told me I was mad but I think with hindsight it was sour grapes because they hadn't thought it was possible. One thing I don't miss about that job was having to run for the train with my cool-bag, milk sloshing and pump rattling inside it, because the later train would have me home too late to collect ds1.

chipmonkey · 21/05/2008 18:59

Sorry Xenia, meant to say, fantastic piece!

Judy1234 · 21/05/2008 19:21

Thanks. I certainly much more enjoyed breastfeeding than expressing.

But if it's a question of would you like to earn several hundred thousand a year in the future for the next 40 years or give up work with the chance you'll never be able to go back to it but not have to express I think expressing was a small price to pay..... laughing as I type.

for I'm not sure a special room would have helped because then everyone would have known where I was going and getting the milk to let down is a bit like having an orgasm - if the pressure is on you to do it it's much harder to achieve it. So the thought of everyone knowing I was in some special room expressing milk I think might have inhibited rather than helped me.

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chipmonkey · 21/05/2008 19:48

ROFL at letdown being like orgasm! You obviously have much better letdown than me, Xenia!

Judy1234 · 21/05/2008 22:10

There are certainly psycho-sexual aspects of breastfeeding. The kind of build up before and then when the milk lets down oxytocin is released which is what happens when you orgasm and that kind of binds you to the baby and then you're all relaxed afterwards. I am sure the process developed to make women want to do it.

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LadyPenelope · 22/05/2008 01:29

6 months before I was expressing at work, another colleague was expressing, then while I was quite a few other women started. I got the impression that it was becoming seen as "normal" and achievable - and there was safety in numbers.

We had 3 little cubicles with a comfy chair, paper towels, and plug point in each ... much nicer than when we had do use the ladies loo. There were only 2 cubicles and the noise of the pump etc, it was so obvious who was in there and exactly what they were doing ... and everyone queuning up to use the other loo. I didn't like that (and like you Xenia couldn't "perform") and much preferred to use the proper room - even if people knew exactly what I was doing in there!

The first time round it added an extra dimension of hassle having to find a room with a lock and blinds that closed (office had windows to the open floor and no blinds and not all offices had locks.) Plus the hassle of having to book it out each day and stop other people taking it... possible to do, just an added dimension of complexity. The easier and more normal it can be made the better.

StarlightMcKenzie · 22/05/2008 01:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

weasle · 22/05/2008 03:25

Wonderful story, thanks for sharing.

I don't think everyone could do it though. My ds2 fed most of the day and night until at least 3months. Stories about early return to work just made me feel inadequte or that I couldn't satisfy my baby properly. As it is I am terrified about my return to work in about a month. I don't think they will have heard of anyone expressing at work, and will all think I am weird for wanting to feed more than 6 months. And I work in a hospital!

Agree about 'performance anxiety' type thing with let down and expressing!

WilfSell · 22/05/2008 07:47

Xenia, what a wonderful story. Not everyone will have found those transitions as smooth as you did but you have a really interesting life. You should write an autobiography.

I expressed when back at work with baby number one. i have my own office so it wasn't difficult. With baby two I was just too busy and he was biting so I ended up giving up much earlier than I hoped.

I'm now on baby three and have gone back to work later so am either popping over to the nursery to feed him at lunchtime or simply leaving it till I pick him up. They're quite happy for me to sit there feeding him when I get there which means we get to squeeze another feed in. I hope more women will try and combine work and BF as a result of your post.

Judy1234 · 22/05/2008 08:58

Good. I think the most important point I make is for women to be happy with their own choices. That requires an internal good sense of self and security and probably comes back to being loved as a child. Rather than constantly thinking you're failing. So feeling confident in what you're doing and not guilty helps women (and men too) in proceeding in way they think are right in life. I bought a book on working and breastfeeding in about 1983 which was very useful when I had the first child.

I never see enough threads on mumsnet about the pleasure of breastfeeding - just how hard and awful it is and about sore nipples and problems whereas it can actually be a really pleasurable activity for the mother (as well as the baby). It's not something you endure or get through like say childbirth but a source of pleasure although there were certainly some times when I was sore. The problem looking back almost 23 years in one case and 9 with the twins is you might just remember the good bits I suppose.

I suppose I might have used an expressing room but the thought of having to book it etc when you don;t know when you'll be out of a meeting or how your work will pan out sounds really inconvenient. I was happier doing it in a little used toilet where no one was around which was perfectly clean and no one would know where I had gone or for what reason which seemed to give me the privacy I needed.

If I had had a choice I would never have expressed. It's a huge hassle and nothing like as fun as breastfeeding. It's much easier if the baby can be brought to you but that's just not possible for a lot of workers. It was much easier by the time of the twins as I was based at home. I found that so easy - that I could feed as much as I liked or they liked and then hand them to their nanny who was in the house to change, deal with crying, take out for walks etc, a very nice combination of being near them but also doing what I chose in terms of work I enjoyed.

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hunkermunker · 22/05/2008 09:00

Thank you, Xenia. Will put it up later. Marriage breaking up over breastfeeding? How very sad.

It's hard to be too outwardly delighted about bfing going well without a raft of people floating by and shouting at you for being smug, sadly.

I might blog about that too, actually.

WilfSell · 22/05/2008 09:03

I posted on BF/FF ages ago when I was m o n k e y b i r d about the delights of babyfeeding in general (including FF). It didn't get flamed but I got the impression it wasn't 'done' (I was quite new to MN then) to find pleasure in providing food, particularly because it is so very controversial to say BF is great, we enjoy it, it's lovely. A shame that that message is so very 'hot' still in ths country.

Judy1234 · 22/05/2008 10:22

WS, that's good of you. I am sure a lot of people are uncomfortable with sexual issues in general and although it didn't feel the same as sex for me it certainly made me feel less sexual in general (which make evolutionary sense because you're concentrating on the child) and the replacement of baby for man with a process which involves physical closeness, sucking on nipples, build up to let down reflex, kind of explosion of milk and release and then release of oxytocin and feeling relaxed and happy is just so so similar to sex. But I doubt this is a great message to put over to sell breastfeeding to all those women who don't do it in the UK, quite the converse.

Yet people including men for generations have always loved the sight of mother and baby feeding, fathers like to see it, artists paint it because it is such a unique closeness.

I won't get into the lactation sexual perversion some men have because I'm not into that but that's obviously another interesting issue about the whole thing.

(hm, I won't write about that person whose marriage broke up because it's private to him but it was a very very sad story and my sympathies were entirely with his wife)

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hunkermunker · 03/06/2008 11:55

Xenia, thank you again.

I have just put this on my blog here

jetgirl · 03/06/2008 12:06

Xenia, that's really inspirational. I fully bfed my first when I returned to work at 4 months, and my 2nd when I went back at 5 months. Work has provided me a room to express in, and a fridge, though like you say it is so hard to relax properly that I find it difficult, and often wait till I get home when I express and feed at the same time!

hunkermunker - yes, I often feel that people think I am being smug about breastfeeding. I'm not, I just really enjoy it, and think it's a demonstration of how amazing the body can be.

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