What are the risks of exclusive formula feeding?

[catsypug]

I've just been reading through some very interesting and amusing old threads about mothers who don't breastfeed (started by Milkgoddess)

A couple of times 'the ignorance about the risks of formula feeding' was mentioned - the word 'risks' is a little worrying. Not sure whether it was just emotive language from a staunch pro breastfeeder, or there are real serious risks

If it's the immunity building/correct nutrients issue, then in my experience - I was BF and I had asthma, eczema and sinus problems as a kid. I BF my DD for 4 months and she developed terrible eczema due to an egg allergy. My DH and his siblings never had a drop of breast milk on their lips and they are all strapping healthy beings.

Thanks - just really want to make sure that not breastfeeding this time round is definitely the right decision for an already knackered mum

"it is worth bearing in mind that millions of people have been exclusively FF with no ill effects whatsoever"

Yes - it does seem a bit simplistic.

How a baby is fed DOES impact on their health and development in all sorts of subtle ways that are impossible for us as individuals to quantify. We know this is true, which is why we try to give your children an optimal diet in later childhood, despite the fact that the majority of children who have suboptimal diets in the UK don't show any discernable damage associated with it. Why should we treat infant feeding differently?

And, speaking as a woman, if I hadn't been able to breastfeed, while I wouldn't 'beat myself up' about it, I would have felt very sad and disappointed - and that's ok. Aren't we allowed to feel a sense of loss about not being able to succeed with a basic biological function that's an intrinsic part of the experience of motherhood for most people? Other people telling us that it doesn't matter, because it doesn't make any difference to our babies anyway, and that therefore we should feel 'fine' about it is neither here not there.

catsypug - have you thought of hiring a doula? I don't know whether this is an option for you financially, but a postnatal doula is someone who can help you with feeding (whether formula, breast), help you look after your toddler, look after the house, and most importantly look after you and make sure that you're being nurtured! You can find more out about them here

WRT to breastfeeding - have you thought about just breastfeeding for the first few days so he/she gets the colostrum and then moving onto formula either partially or fully. Or just taking it day by day and see how you feel?

Hi everyone - thanks all so much for your replies and advice. I've been giving this a lot of thought yesterday. Been very teary and upset. I didn't realise after telling myself it would be 'ok' not to BF that the guilt would then weigh so heavily on me.

Spoke to DH about it last night and have decided that I am going to start BF and see how I go on .

I guess I had been thinking that I would want to do the colostrum at least, but what would be the point of going through the first week/ 2 weeks of 'razor blades through the nipples' agony to then stop? Why bother starting? But how could I BF one child and not the other and it just doesn't sit right with me to deny baby 2 when I am physically perfectly capable of feeding.

I've read here a few times that it can be easier second time round. I'm already going to be knackered from labour and little sleep anyway - bottle feeding isn't going to make that any better.

And also, once through the pain barrier it probably is going to be the much easier 'and cheaper' option. Someone mentioned speaking to my Dr about getting my health and energy back up - maybe it's a full time iron supplement to go along with BF?

I do think I've been feeling depressed and fed up this week, demonising BF in my mind as the perfect way to just 'finish me off' and choosing not to do it seemed like the perfect solution to detach me from all of this ill-health. But thinking more clearly now, I don't see the real achievements there either.

good for you!
Good luck gtting your energy level;s back

In my experience it was much much easier feeding my 2nd and 3rd child than it was feeding the first.
I dont know how I managed to carry on feeding my first child, I think that at times it was only the guilt that kept me going, but the second time was a completely different experience.
Even if you do feel that you need to stop after a week or two then your baby will have benefitted from the period of breastfeeding they had. Good luck.

catsypug - I really recommend you contact a local bf counsellor NOW and ask about bf support groups locally. Do you have a bf cafe near you? I think it would really help you to make contact with those people locally who can help you, so you can get things sorted really quickly if you run into difficulties in the first week or so.

But - would also want to reiterate what littlepinkpixie says: honestly bf doesn't ALWAYS hurt. I was in agony with my first (shredded, bleeding, scabby nipples) because we didn't know what we were doing. Second and third time around I had NO PAIN at all.

Good luck!

You sound like you have a good plan and an open mind, catyspug, and mumsnet is here for you when the time comes

fabsmum - good post earlier today. I don't think it helps when people tell other people what to feel, and not to feel bad....I'm sure the intention is good, but people have a right to feel conflicted about feeding; to say, in effect, 'it doesn't really matter' is to deny the depth of their feelings and to trivialise them.

oh, catsy! i had the same thing with DD2. she shredded my left nipple in hospital. i thought, 'here we go again!'

a midwife came and looked at these three huge blood blisters and said, 'oh, that looks sore.'

what was really needed was a BF counsellor.

it made so much of a difference, just that one time, just learning a few techniques.

i even was able to feed DD2 off that breast when it was healing and it didn't hurt!

my counsellor gave me such wise words, 'if it's still hurting after 10-15 seconds, break the suction and try again,' and some other tips, like swaddling DD2 and giving her a finger to suck to calm her a bit if she got too upset - it's often hard for a fiercely upset baby to open her mouth wide enough to latch properly.

just play it by ear.

but DO speak to your GP about your feelings AND line up some proper BF support for after you leave hospital.

good luck!

Good for you Catsypug, I would only add to the great advice that others have already given is to ask around if there's a breastfeeding cafe or group with peer counsellors near to you. This will give you somewhere to go with both your children and provide you with some moral support aswell.

The Floridix that someone mentioned earlier can be taken when pregnant and nursing so you could definately try that to get your energy levels up.

If you want to FF then do it,
I was FF as my mum was on anti-biotics and couldn't breasfeed and I am healthy, no allergies etc etc. I had exzema when I was little but completely gone now.

Alot of people say there are risks for not BF but I think there are risks for BF, such as tired, naggy mum etc.

Do want you need to do to keep sane!!

Lucky, of course everyone has to do what they need to do...their choice

'A lot of people say there are risks for not bf'????? This understates it! It's not 'a lot of people saying', it's a considerable body of research literature confirming it.

What you 'think' does not compare with this - and while all mothers can be tired and naggy at times, to put this next to the risks of not bf would mean comparing studies which show bf mothers are more likely to be tired and naggy...and I don't think you have any evidence for that!

(Individually, of course individual mothers will feel tired and naggy and feel bf has something to do with it, and similarly, individual mothers may feel the same way and blame ff....)

Blimey - I was browsing on here to find out if anybody else was having doubts / questions about bf their second child - didn't expect to find all this!

I have a two and a half year DS and I bf him for 3 weeks. However, straight after birth I was informed by a midwife that the reason he wasn't feeding (and didn't for 2 days) was because 'sometimes babies don't need to feed in the very early days'. I'm still unsure if this is actually fact but if it isn't true, what about the babies that feed within an hour of being bron straight onto mum's tummy? My little man was whisked away and wrapped in a blanket and put in his little crib, while I had my 'emroidery' done!!

When he did start to feed it was fine until my milk 'came in' and I was faced with the impossibility of trying to find the 'valve' in two massively overinflated footballs and he would consistently 'slip off', causing agony for me and hunger for him. I suppose I was unable to 'replenish' the small amount of milk he had drained from me in the very short space of time it took for him to decide he was hungry again! He would demand a feed (or so I thought - I was a first time mum after all!) about every half an hour and to top it all off, I was an emotional wreck! I was fortunate enough not to have suffered from PND but I definately had the baby blues and I really don't think my breastfeeding difficulties helped with this. I couldn't even give him a cuddle without him crying to be fed. Add sleep deprivation to this and it made for an unhappy family all round!!

Des[pite a fantastic labour and birth and a lovely midwife, I asked to speak to a BF counsellor at Hospital (hours after he was born) but by the time I left the following day, nobody had been to see me. I sought advice from midwives and health visitors, only for them to give me flimsy advice such as either 'do what you feel is right' (!!) or for them to grab my breast and shove DS's head on, without giving me advice on how to do it / positioning etc. I was also told that I shouldn't express until DS1 was 5-6 weeks old. Again, I don't know if this is true or not. After he went to ff, I was advised by HV almost immediately to put him onto C&G hungrier babymilk - I wonder if this had anything to do with his seemingly 'milk-barren' early days??! He put weight on well after that and actually became quite a chubby baby for a while, which was good!

So, now I find myself 5 days (in theory) from giving birth to my 2nd child and I'm torn between bf and ff. Although I cried with grief (for the last breastfeed) and elation (at the relief of ff) my life changed unrecognisably the day I switched to ff with my DS1 and although bf is the 'right' thing to do on a health level, ff made things so much more manageable. It really isn't so much the 'convenience' factor - I really don't know if I can face the trauma that bf seemed to cause me plus the added extra of having a two and a half year old running about.

As you can imagine, I've researched quite a bit about it since but I suppose if I'm honest I am about 90% sure that I'd like to just ff from the word go. But maybe I am worrying about bf more than I need to. I think that I found it so difficult before that it doesn't appeal to me anymore.
My DH is supportive and assures me that we'll get advice / support because we'll address any problems as soon as they come up. Its just those dark days at the very beginning that I'm worrying about!

Maybe I'll just have to see how I feel after baby is born - but the way I feel about it at the moment, I'm swaying heavily towards going straight to bottle feeding. Surely it's only 'best' for baby if its 'best' for mum too?

Sorry for the long post - had a lot to say!

spikejack - what truly terrible breastfeeding 'care' you had. Almost everything you report about it is either wrong, confused or unhelpful - and you were really, really unlucky to have such a succession of dim helpers and to be let down in that way. Anyone would understand your wish to avoid a repeat performance...and if the choice is between 'rubbish support for breastfeeding that leaves the mother desperate, in pain and the baby miserable' and formula feeding, then obviously there is no contest.

Fortunately, things should be better this time. For a start you know more. You will know

• not to permit anyone to take your baby from you, and to keep him skin to skin with you (yes, even if you need stitches - why not?)
• not to permit the grab and shove method of 'helping'
• that sometimes, expressing in the early days can help resolve a problem (there is no rule about waiting to 5-6 weeks)
• that there is expert help available with bf, and also you have a choice of a number of volunteer networks you can call on if the NHS fails to produce someone competent that babies always* need to feed in the early days...what was that midwife thinking??

Hope things work out better with this second little one, if you decide to bf.

What an interesting thread...will try and read it all now;
I just wanted to say that just because someone was breastfed and still gets conditions like asthma, eczema and alergies doesn't mean to say that if they hadn't been breastfed their conditions might be much worse. To a large extent these conditions are inhereted which is why I was so completely determined to breastfeed my dd for as long as I could to try and at least lessen the chances or the extent that she might get them iyswim?

Thank you for your post. I forgot to add that while I was in the Hospital bed, wondering why mine seemed to be the ONLY newborn awake throughout its WHOLE first night in the World (he didn't sleep a wink!!) a midwife on the ward let me struggle on for hours, having no idea what was 'wrong' with my DS and then, when I asked for help, offered me a bottle of formula and said 'why don't you just try this?'.
Fortunately, I had the strength of mind and the adrenaline buzz that seemed to accompany my absence of sleep!) to say that I didn't want to 'give up' so soon, so I persevered (goodness knows how - it was 3am!). Finally they took my DS to their 'midwife station' (makes me think of midwives with blue flashing lights on their heads!) to allow me 2 hours sleep. However, I didn't sleep because I then had the 'I'm a failure at Motherhood - my child has been whipped away from me during his first night in the World' (admittedly I think the delirium was catching up on me by that point - I'm not generally neurotic about these things!).
Then they promptly brought him back to me as soon as I awoke / he woke up - can't remember which came first!

Looking back, I feel proud that I managed to continue for 3 weeks in massive and teary discomfort (mine and his!) but it took me a long time to accept the fact that it wasn't 'my fault/failure' that I stopped when I did. I now know (and feel reassured by your reply) that I know more than I did then (even though I had read countless books and articles on bf - just never thought it could be so complex!) and I would ABSOLUTELY ask questions (over and over again if necessary) in order to 'get it right' this time.

So, I'll see how things go after the imminent birth of my second child and I am very keen to try the skin-to-skin delivery as soon as baby is born. I think it will be at this point that my mind will be made up. But I know that either way, I have a perfectly healthy two and a half year old and whether it works or doesn't work this time, I'll be much better informed before I start!

Thank you again

Spikejack, before having DC2 I'd decided to just bf for 2 weeks, due to my experiences with DC1 who I bf for 7 months (his choice, he wouldn't accept a bottle at all!) and undiagnosed pnd. I was off the idea of expressing because my experience with it was using a hand pump.

So with DC2 I had nipple blisters and engorgement pains, breasts so swollen DC couldn't latch on etc, so I used the hospital's electric pump to express. It was so much more comfortable. When I got home, I bought an electric pump and it allowed my nipples to heal. DC2 did NOT get nipple confusion, she can switch from one to the other quite easily, although of course this is just my experience of using teats and boobs at the same time.(Also, if your decision is to either express or ff, you may as well express).
It's allowed me to continue giving breast milk to my baby for longer than I had planned and allowed me to have another go at feeding at the breast when I felt ready.
The downside is having to be organised about sterilising bottles/pump equipment, and making time to sit down to express and to feed to baby. And the cost of the pump.
But now she can feed at the breast without causing huge pains and we can both be relaxed.

Hi Spikejack - good luck with what you decide to do It sounds like you had an absolutely terrible experience first time round.

It's not like the old days now where you're kept in hospital for a week for some R&R while being taught how to do everything like feeding and bathing.

In a way I kind of envy my SIL who never breastfed and never worried about it. The thought never crossed her mind and she felt no guilt over it. And no one challenged her about it either. It was just a flat 'NO' if she was asked if she was BF or not with no excuses or explanations offered. I hasten to add she has a perfectly normal healthy 3 year old now.

catsypug - as someone who's had mostly good time with breastfeeding I feel sorry for women who haven't had a chance to share this special experience with their children . I think they've missed out on something that would have given them and their babies a lot of pleasure, pride and satisfaction. If you'd had really positive experiences of breastfeeding in the past you wouldn't feel the way you do about your SIL. I've got my fingers crossed for you that if you bf this time around you have a much happier time of it - breastfeeding can be beautiful you know, it really can.

Catsypug, where in the world are you, is there anyone here who could give you some support in the early weeks?

As for "all the other stuff" I think you are doing really well, keep an open mind, ASK FOR HELP, not just with bf, but with housework etc too.

I have never met a woman who failed to bf, but I have met lots and lots who were failed by those who should have been helping them! Find a local Baby Cafe or other group and start going as soon as you can, before Bubba2 arrives if you can, and take every day slowly, one at a time, now and after the baby arrives.

Monkies

One day at a time

Monkies

Thanks for that FabsMum and GreenMonkies that's really cool reading that.

I'm in West London so I know I will find support - there will be loads of things around. I'm going to speak to my MW this week and tell her how I've been feeling, that I've decided I'm going to go for it and what support is there round here?

When I got through all the hurdles first time round with BF DD then I really did enjoy it most of the time and I know how the feeling can be really special.

My SIL's attitude was definitely blunt! We're very different people. I just felt with all the torture and indecision I've put myself through over this, maybe a bit of her
bluntness would have helped. Probably not though!

Westminster PCT support/run 0-9 month baby groups. I went to Paddington Parents run by Abena Boateng at the Baptist Church opposite the Royal Oak tube but that was 2 years ago now and I've moved out of London now. Lots of Breastfeeders around there though just a case of sourcing them.

Is your hubby supportive???

Thanks for thatcatsypug and threestars.

I've spoken to a different Midwife this week (as mine is on holiday) and I feel so much more encouraged now, especially after reading all of these posts. Regardless of what people say nowadays, there really is a lot of pressure to bf but my MW has reassured me of what I kind of already knew - that it is only best for baby if it is best for mum too.

So, with 2 days to go until I'm due (and hopefully a few more after that too as I've cracked a rib so labour would be torture at this precise moment!), I'm going to make sure that:

a)baby is delivered onto my tummy to encurage feeding within the 1st hour of birth (as my DS1 was wrapped up in a blanket immediately after he was born and put in a little crib)

b)I will speak to a bf counsellor in the Hospital if one is available and if not I'll speak to my MW (or her locum replacement as she seems excellent) for advice.

and finally and I feel, most importantly,

c) if at any point I don't feel happy or comfortable, I'll know that there are other options such as expressing / combining bf with ff or just formula feeding.

In many respects I do feel envious of somebody who has made a decision not to attempt breastfeeding. I have a number of friends who wouldn't even consider it for one reason or another and given the chances of sore / cracked / bleeding nipples, mastitis, nipple confusion etc etc, its no wonder people decide not to! However, I think I'd be doing myself and baby number 2 an injustice not to even try it. I managed it with DS1 for 3 weeks (even though it was AGONY!) but I know now that it shouldn't hurt so I'd get help immediately if I have any difficulties.

And, if it comes to it, I'll stop if I have to because I have a perfectly healthy little boy and this time I won't feel that I have to prove myself to anyone!

SpikeJack,

" I'm going to make sure that:

a)baby is delivered onto my tummy to encurage feeding "

This implies that you will give birth lying down, which is more painful and much harder work. If you give birth upright (kneeling, squatting or even standing) you'll need less (if any) pain relief and then baby will be much more likely to feed well from the start. If you are upright ask the MW to pass baby forwards between your legs then sit down and get to know your new person. Cord cutting and placenta delivery are best left (until the cord stops pulsating) as long as everything is ok, so no need to whisk baby away or anything.

And cracked rib, ouch!! Hope it's not too bad and baby arrives smoothly and safely!

Monkies

Thanks GreenMonkies,

I gave birth to my DS1 whilst kneeling up on the bed and found it quite bearable (or as bearable as childbirth can be!) and then sat on the bed afterwards, once the cord had been cut etc.

I plan to use this position again (and any others that feel comfortable - except lying on my back!). Its just that with DS1 he was checked over for all of the usual bits and pieces and then wrapped up and given to us in a blanket. Then within minutes he was put in his crib so I could have my 'embroidery' done.

At the time, I felt that I'd had a good labour and delivery and had managed to stick to my birth plan and only had gas and air throughout. I'm hoping for the same again this time (!) but I feel much more in control that I can say to the MW I'd like to have baby passed to me in my arms / on my tummy immediately.

Just a matter of waiting now - and hoping that my rib mends itself soon!!