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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Advice needed for Mum who wants to give colostrum but intro bottle early on...

35 replies

Looby34 · 20/04/2008 21:54

Hi. I had a truly awful experience bf'ing my first and vowed I would not do it if I had another.

My 2nd is due in 2 weeks and while I know I don't want to bf long term, I would like to give my baby colostrum at the start. As soon as my milk comes in I plan to give at least one bottle a day, increasing this as the days go by until I stop bf'ing altogether around 10 days or so after giving birth.

My thinking is that I hopefully won't end up with mastitis as my milk won't ever have got well established.

Does anyone have experience of doing something similar or any advice on my 'plan'?

I have no intention of feeding long term so would be really grateful for advice rather than questions about why. Thanks.

OP posts:
Shitemum · 22/04/2008 20:44

When my babies were very little, maybe the first month or so, they would only have one breast at each feed and the other one for the next feed. This seemed to fill them up. They usually went about 2 hours between the start of one feed and the start of the next. So a feed might start at 9am and take an hour or so then the next one would start at 11am.
I tell you this to warn you that if you decide to continue bfeeding, once you start, you may find that your new baby is feeding more frequently than your first one did. If this happens you shouldnt think you dont have enough milk and its a particularly hungry baby - ime feeding every couple of hours rather than every 4 hours, is usual for a newborn. As their stomachs get bigger they start to take both sides at each feed and go longer between feeds. HTH and really hope your experience is better this time. Good luck with the birth too.

morocco · 22/04/2008 22:20

I would also agree with shitemum, my babies followed a similar pattern in the early days (in fact dd1 is still v reluctant to go more than 2 hours between feeds, greedy guzzler).
and agreeing with verylittlecarrot, even if you only plan to bf for a few weeks, don't ignore any pain/sore nipples, seek help face to face from a bf counsellor asap
good luck with it all

Looby34 · 23/04/2008 08:57

Sorry Tiktok - yes, C, Byam Cook..

Thanks everyone for your advice. I feel I would be very 'lucky' if my 2nd baby fed this way and slept for 4 hours between feeds. I had noticed on MN that women were talking more about 2 hourly feeds...

I'm still confused though - about feeding from both sides. Obviously if baby drains one side and is still hungry I would offer the other side. But what if baby is perfectly happy/full/sleepy after feeding from one side only and being offered (but declining) the other. Naturally I would offer the opposite breast at the next feed... This is what I did last time but Tik Tok has said (and I have read) that both breasts should be used at each feed to minimise the chance of mastitis .... I'm confused...

2nd question for you - if baby fed from left breast for 20 minutes and then spent 5 minutes on the right - would I offer the right first at the next feed as less had been 'taken' from it ?

I'm sorry to ask so many questions - I'm just keen to minimise the chance of engorgement and mastitis which is what happened last time. Thanks everyone.

OP posts:
tiktok · 23/04/2008 10:11

Looby, the point about both sides is a bit confusing, I agree. Routinely, babies should be offered both sides in the first weeks...sometimes they will be zonked out and full and will not respond at all, and that's ok. It's not really to minimise the chance of mastistis (did I say that?) but to ensure that both breasts get the 'message' that more milk is needed.

Milk is 'ordered up' by removing it. If this happens infrequently, production lessens. After the first days, breasts work independently of each other, so both sides need frequent removal of milk. Generous producers with large storage capacities (not the same as having large breasts per se) will 'get away with' less frequent removal. Mrs Average Mum who feeds from one side only every 4-5 hours will simply not make enough milk to sustain breastfeeding or to sustain her baby.

Sometimes, mothers are (erroneously) told to only ever use one side per session. They keep the baby on that one side deliberately, and then offer the next side next time.

Some relaxed babies accept this, and take enough milk this way to tick along and survive ok, but a few weeks into it all, they get a fright - the baby is not gaining weight, and may be sleeping quite a lot (to conserve calories).

In your case, IIRC, your baby slept fine, but was clearly thriving as the weight gain was good....so very unusually, the pattern you and your baby had adopted was one that suited you both and which also kept your baby well-nourished and happy. No problem there - but for most people, this just would not work.

It's misleading to talk about feeding and sleeping cycles, as these take no account of the differences in the volume of milk different babies will take at any one time, the differences in the volume of milk available (babies never take every drop of milk - there is always some there, but there are times the breasts are less full than others), and the personality and emotional needs of the baby....stick all of those into the pot, and you will get wide individual variations.

You don't know what sort of baby you have, and what sort of breastfeeding works, in the first weeks, so it makes sense to at least offer the second side when you can. If the baby clearly doesn't want it or need it, no big deal.

Somewhere on here, I have posted links to a great study that tracked the variation in the amount of milk taken at each feed by healthy, thriving babies up to age six months - they assessed it by doing lots of test weights. The variation was from 0 (yes, zero) mls to 240 mls!

Observations of mothers and babies show that healthy, thriving babies will have a wide variation in the number of times they come to the breast, too. In pre-industrial societies where babies are carried all the time, it's dozens and dozens and dozens of times. Every time the baby twitches, it's a breastfeed. they are fine In developed countries, it's something like between 6 and 18 times, and there's a bell curve distribution ie few babies are at either end of the spectrum and most are in the middle.

Hope that helps explain it a bit more.

Shitemum · 23/04/2008 10:13

I would offer the breast that the baby hadn't taken at the previous feed or the first of the two if he took both. Even if it was only 5 minutes that's enough to get quite a lot. So offer the one he didn't have last iyswim. You may be able to feel which breast is fuller and if it's not the one you expected it to be then maybe give the fuller one first to help avoid engorgment problems. You can always try expressing a bit off if you are uncomfortable.
Remember that your breasts will produce according to demand (i.e. according to how much the baby takes)so just try and make sure that baby feeds more or less the same from both breasts in any 24 hr period. It's not an exact science!
If baby always takes both breasts then start with the second one at next feed. I mean don't always start with the same breast. E.g. A+B then B+A, that way if he doesnt usually have much from second breast they will still produce plenty each.
I'm making this sound much more complicated than it is! To sum up:

  1. Let baby spend as much time feeding as he wants, then offer second breast.
  2. Try and make sure both breasts are being emptied on a regular basis.
  3. Feel before each feed to see if one is much fuller than the other and offer that one first, it will usually not be the one you fed from last, but might be.
Despite your experience with your 1st baby I would still say it's better to be feeding every 2 - 2.5 hours in the first 2 or 3 weeks at least, especially if you want to keep up a good supply and avoid engorgement.

If Tiktok disagrees with any of this then follow her advice!

tiktok · 23/04/2008 11:18

at Shitemum...you've explained it fine! I would just say the 'weigh 'em and then choose' method doesn't always work, as the disparity in size of breasts does not always persist after the first weeks.

Looby34 · 23/04/2008 13:08

Hi Tik Tok. Thanks for the infp. Unless I haven't understood, you said in your post of 9.56am on Tuesday - that just offering one side predisposes to engorgement and mastitis....

It might be that the pattern I seemed to adopt last time (which was based on what my baby was doing) could not have been subtained, had I fed for longer than 3 weeks.

I don't care about keeping up a good supply because as my original post said, I only want to feed in the very short term. What I'm trying to do is minimise the likelihood of engorgment and mastitis. In fact it seems it would be easier for me to stop if my supply didn't get established.

Shitemum thanks for your suggestions. I'm afraid it wasn't very easy first time round to tell which one was the fullest - don't know if my breasts just weren't very sensitive ?? I know breast feeding isn't an exact science thats why I think it just doesn't suit me as a person - because I'm very black and white, it's just me, I can't help it. The desire to give my baby the best start but not end up in the same position as last time is what is driving me to keep asking questions. I think I'll just have to see how it goes and hope that if I do have questions as I go along, I can find someone I trust to answer them correctly

OP posts:
doggiesayswoof · 23/04/2008 13:21

Just had quick look at thread - Looby, is it worth finding out now what the provision is for support in your area, rather than waiting until your baby is born? Your best bet will be seeing a bfc face to face.

I asked my midwife during my last pg and was told that there was a bf support group and drop-in clinic at the hospital. It was not well publicised - I'm glad I didn't have to start looking for it after dd was born when I was already having problems.

Looby34 · 23/04/2008 13:25

hi doggiesayswoof - thanks for your suggestion. Last night I emailed a midwife who heads up the bf clinic at the hospital I'll be at, to ask if there are counsellors who could come to see me whilst I am there - so we'll see what she says x

OP posts:
tiktok · 23/04/2008 13:28

The mastitis thing is real, not saying I was wrong there , but the main thing about offering 2 sides in the early days is to get the whole production line underway!

Full breasts which get engorged are more likely to develop an inflammation/infection, which is no fun

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