how can we nomalise breastfeeding??

[shreksmissus]

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but breastfeeding is normal

at least i used to think so

but mn sometimes makes me feel the opposite

i think perhaps making an issue of it has the reverse effect and makes it seem precious and relevant only to a particular group

Breastfeeding isn't normal to many many people in modern Britain though, Zippitoes. It's still a minority who do it.

lol at modern britain im not that old

people might not do it but are you sure they think its abnormal

oiF,I must look into a sign for breastfeeding. i don't like the generic milk one (which is a miliking action.)
Recent MN threads have convinced me that the whole 'Breast is best' thing is not generally useful. Rather, breastfeeding must be seen as normal defualt option as opposed to effortful conscious decision.

well he grabs his nipple and then does the milk sign hes incredibly talented...

Very good!
(Are you Fio?)

i agree with moondog

yes I am lovely

there was meant to be a comma in therre somewhere, I am not lovely

Fishing for compliments eh?

There is a makaton sign for breast milk as opposed to the one for "milk" which is like milking a cow's udder. It's like squeezing a breast iirc.

It's in the back of my book... but that's at home sorry.

I'm doing my little bit and getting my norks out wherever and whenever LO screams. I thought I'd mind about bf in public, but I've discovered that I mind having a screaming baby much more.

I had NCT classes and we had a session on BF that was really helpful. We also have a baby cafe which helps carry on the good work. If I were to say anything at all about how bf is presented, it would be that it feels all the time like people are trying to persuade you to breastfeed by bandying "breast is best" and other such slogans about. When I got pregnant, I had already decided I wanted to breastfeed, as had all the people in my NCT. IME, the people who don't bf aren't people who don't believe in bf, they are people who have tried it, struggled, felt like failures and stopped. I myself struggled terribly with my milk not arriving in time and having to go through having my dehydrated baby rushed into SCBU at midnight. After that, formula was essential while we sorted out my breast milk. I so nearly gave up, I had no confidence in my boobs to be able to provide for my baby at all. It was sheer bloody-mindedness , drugs, and a tongue tie snip for my baby that finally saw me through to being able to bf. Breast feeding had been presented as "the most natural thing in the world", and although I knew it was supposed to be quite hard for some people, and that I would probably get sore nipples or something, I was completely unprepared for the reality. All the books talked about engorgement, I had no idea that I might struggle to produce enough, I felt like a complete failure. Until I touched base with the rest of my NCT group, that is, and found that we had all, in our own way, struggled and nearly given up!

What is required, I think, is for mums-to-be to attend baby cafe or meet up with bf mums and listen to some real life stories of what it's like. I think that in the eagerness to present the positives of bf, a lot of the time the difficulties are glossed over. So when people hit a difficulty, they are disposed to imagine they are failures. Mutual support from other mums here and in "real life" is what got me through.

I think whilst it is natural it's not the norm therefore not normal. This is why I think it does need to be made into a big thing, drawn attention to etc. One on one bf counsellor to visit every new mother would be great but there isn't any money for the things that need to be done.

I agree with sanguine. am currently really struggling with bf my 8wk old and would def have benefited from some more realistic bf education eg how to tell if your baby is getting enough, how to build a supply etc. also i needed to give ff supplements when lo was admitted to hosp dehydrated and nobody ever properly explained the new guidance on making up bottles, nor the reasons why this changed.

in my ante natal classes ff was a dirty word which did not help me cope when it became a medical necessity.

it is a bit like miscarriage, obv a healthy baby is best but because nobody tells you about m/c when you get pg, you feel so abnormal when it happens to you, you feel ashamed to admit it, and yet m/c is so common.

in general people who are in charge of educating pg women should think about covering all possible outcomes not just the best outcomes. balance in all things i say.

Totally agree with what sanguine said about mutual support from other bf mums being a big help - hardly bf my older two at all, didn't know anyone else doing it and had no support. This time joined a mums and baby group where the majority bf and it really helped to build my confidence and am still bf dd2 8mths on.

Think education at school age is essential. I bf in front of a nursery class (at teachers request) and the number of children saying - that's not how you feed a baby -was saddening. It should be in childrens books, on TV more, posters etc etc. If children grow up thinking it is the norm, surely they stand a better chance of bf themselves

Loopy, we had a good thread a short while ago discussing just this (risks of formula feeding, not benefits of breastfeeding).

There are publications which talk about the risks of formula feeding and I have a feeling it is stated as such in the Birth to 5 book.

But most places, of course, don't.

All medical staff should be trained to be as supportive as the ones I had at the hospital. Breastfeeding was seen as the norm and actively encouraged. Not one person batted an eyelid when coming in my room where I was sat with my norks out, not one, and having fed ds1 in hospital i remember the 'ooh, sorry shall I come back' and shifty eyes not knowing where to look that I had as if i was dong a shit or something.

I know plenty of people will disagree but the objectification of the female form, the way breast are seen as 'for sex' by both sexes is a huge problem.

somehow the idea that page 3 is acceptable and a woman nursing her child is seen as pervy speaks volumes.

basic education about infant development along with contraception long before kids have kids is also a goo idea

and of course supportive and knowledgeable professionals

This thread is very interesting. I don't have any great ideas I'm afraid. BFing for me is normal as my mother BF'd me and my MIL is a midwife so has a 'breast is best' magnet on her fridge . I didn't know that it isn't the norm in society until I had DD and noticed how few people were BFing LOs in feeding areas.

I think that the one that would have helped me when I first had DD would have been to know that places are accepting of BFing mothers. I would have loved to have seen the international BFing sign displayed in places then I would have happily fed DD there and been seen BFing therefore normalising BFing in public. I soon lost my inhibitions though and BFed DD in front of the man in Nationwide whilst we were sorting out our life assurance. Poor bloke was so shocked, he didn't know where to look. I don't suppose that he would have liked DD to have screamed for the hour long appointment though.

Oh yeah VS I'd forgotten - my ds was in hospital recently and when I breastfed him the Doctor pulled the curtain around - as you put so eloquently it was like I was having a shit!

In fact the worst places I've ever been for embarrassment at public bfing have been hospitals; once when dh had appointment at eye hospital (was asked to go in disabled loo) and in the example above.

The last day I was in I had a student from oxford uni come to ask about a research project, a dude from patientline to fix my tv, the ounty woman twice, goodness knows how many docs and nurses and midwives, a cleaner, two different food people, a phlebotomist, a hearing testing person and her boss all come in and see me feeding, not one of them said a thing or even indicated they felt at all uncomfortable but last time round I had the curtain trick a couple of times, by mws and people practically running out of the room when they saw what I was doing.

I was ever so proud of my BiL though, he is 19 so prime embarrassment time and I said to him 'I'm feeding him so if you don't want to see anything I'd stay there for a minute' and he just shrugged and said 'it's alright, I'm more worried about being clumsy and knocking him' which I thought was lovely.

Ah VS,what a lovely boy he sounds!

I was in hospital for a week with blood pressure, and the aforementioned feeding issues. On account of being disabled as well, I rather jammily got one of the brand new family rooms (pretty decor, fridge, microwave, electric bed, en suite bathroom with roll-in shower, and a sofa bed for mr. sanguine! Like I said, jammy!). When my milk failed to turn up, they arranged for me to have a breast pump in there too. When it turned up, it was a gigantic cast iron thing that made a noise like a steam engine. So, when the parade of visitors turned up, they would find me hooked up to this scary device, chugging away. THAT made people offer to come back later, I can tell you! I always say, you haven't lived until you've expressed milk in front of your father in law!

But seriously, everyone at the hospital was highly pro-breast. Even the lovely czech lady who served the meals came in and beamed at me when I was feeding. I only wish someone had noticed my LO wasn't actually getting any milk BEFORE he got poorly

SallyinYorkshire: I hear your pain! awful to feel you can't trust your body, isn't it? well done for struggling and persevering, one day soon I hope you'll look down at a beautiful, contented, healthy baby snuggling up to your breast and think "this is working!".

thanks sanguine