Can’t do this anymore

[Teddybear120]

I have a 4 week old baby and I’m really struggling.
I’ve been trying to breastfeed her and it just seems one thing after another in our feeding journey.

I’ll preface this by saying she is a long awaited baby after needing IVF. She is my second. My first the breastfeeding never worked and he ended up bottle fed. I initially expressed milk then formula as my supply dropped.

we’ve had a different feeding journey this time but her feeding doesn’t feel right. Initially she had a super strong suction latch, resulting in me having bleeding, cracked nipples, misshapen and then vasospasm. That slowly got better but she started clicking at the breast lots. It is so audible now. We had a posterior tongue tie cut 10 days ago and her feeding is no better- if anything it is worse. She is clicking at the breast constantly. My let down is fast and she gulps and chokes at it initially but then takes it. However her latch is super shallow to cope with it. It doesn’t hurt me but it just feels like she isn’t sucking if that makes sense- just letting the milk pour into her mouth. In the afternoon and evening when my breast is less full she gets grumpy and comes on and off for hours. If I try to latch her deeply she just slips back to a shallow latch.

Ive tried different positions including laying back, rugby ball, cradle, cross cradle, compressing the breast when the flow is slow in the afternoons, expressing the initial let down off. I’ve been under the infant feeding team but they haven’t helped. Theyve say there is nothing wrong with her latch but I can literally pull my nipple out of her mouth without pain or breaking any suction. I’ve been told she is just getting used to her tongue now it is snipped. She is also gaining weight well so they don’t feel it is a problem. I think this is because I have an oversupply at the moment but I’m worried that when my supply regulates it will no longer work for her.
I feel like no one is listening to me.

I’ve had her screaming on and off for 3 hours this afternoon. I finally got her to sleep and she was woken up after 10 minutes. I’m dreading the cluster feeding that will come this evening.

I’m desperate to breastfeed, I feel like I will be judged if I stop now as she is gaining so well (she was back at birth weight day 6 and so far is putting on over an ounce a day). But at the same time all I can think about is running away and I can’t stop crying. I’m just at a loss as to what to do now. My partner has taken her for a walk as I can’t cope anymore. I can’t keep going like this but I also don’t want to stop breastfeeding. I have booked a chiro but the earliest they had is 10 days away and I’ve been to breadtfeedinf support groups but she feeds well there as it is the morning. It is always the afternoon and evenings for up to 8 hours like this.

Anyone have any bright ideas or experience. Will it get better? sorry for the long post, thank you for reading.

No. She is extremely distressed and that is far worse for the baby. There is absolutely nothing wrong with bottle feeding from today forward.

Thank you for the comments, ideas and support.

I know logically that bottle feeding is absolutely fine- my first thrived that way and he settled so well once I stopped trying to breastfeed. We were in the whole feed, top up pump cycle and I was getting no sleep at all. I ended up suicidal at one point because of it - I vividly remember planning how to do it. That scared me so it felt right moving to the bottle.

I promised myself that I wouldn’t get that way this time but I can feel myself getting there. I don’t know why but now it comes to actually going to the bottle I can’t bring myself to do it. I think it is because she is gaining weight so well and can be settled with it so I kind of feel it would be for me rather than her this time, whereas with my son it was definitely what he needed.

My Ultimate aim was to combi feed but I am so scared to introduce the bottle too early and end up with either bottle preference or making her latch even worse. Which is stupid because ultimately if that is her preference then that is the way we go. And if we don’t introduce one then we run the risk of bottle refusal which will be stressful as well. I keep thinking that the 6 week mark as my goal for exclusive breastfeeding (no idea why) but then I think I’ll get there, be no happier and still be pushing myself to go further.

For those that did combi feed- any particular bottle recommendations. I have the lansinoh bottles as I heard they were good for BF babies but when we did try her with one she struggled with it.

Hey - this is not worth hurting your mental health over! However you feed the little one, they are going to grow up healthy.

I also understand a bit of how you feel - I started giving my baby (now 13 weeks) formula alongside BF from day 1, so I could sleep would my partner fed her. I did cry the first time (why did I feel guilty?!). We used cow and gate infant ready made with the sterilised teats, and then progressed to a Tommee Tippee natural start (or close to nature?) size 1 teat and bottle. She will take a bottle from anyone.

My little one now gets BF in the day and once at night, while her first and last feeds of the day are formula given by my partner.

During the crazy cluster feeds in week 2, she jumped from 25th to 50th centiles and is still tracking beautifully on that line. I know they say don't combi feed to start with, but nipple confusion doesn't have good evidence for it being A Thing.

I hope you start feeling better about the situation soon.

Nipple shields saved my breastfeeding journey, and we were able to wean off them no problem. It was either try them or stop. We also always combi fed, but reduced this down to only one bedtime bottle, all other feeds breastfed. We had no issue with nipple confusion. I stopped breastfeeding at 18months. LLL telephone support was amazing, although I think nipple shields are still frowned upon. Take each feed/day at a time and don't give up on a bad day is my advice (if you want to persevere). But if you can't continue then stop, your baby will be fine on formula. I couldn't breastfeed my first and she is now a robust 8 year old, never ill and amazingly bright. Good luck x

Oh and we used the MAM bottles as well as nipple shields. We tried tommie tippee before that but she didn't like them. We always breastfed first them offered top up, but do get some advice from LLL.

OP I can completely understand how your feeling so conflicted and how much your struggling.

I bf my first and gave expressed milk by bottle, thought second time round would be the same but once I introduced that bottle all the issues started. My baby is 14 weeks old and I’m really struggling to deal with the fact we arnt bf anymore and are bottle feeding.

What I would say is that for most bf is really hard going in the beginning, it’s a skill that you both learn. You could try having on in there till 12 weeks, at that point you will either have seen a significant improvement or it will still be problematic and it’s time to transition. Main thing right now is baby is gaining weight, so try and take that as a huge positive and know she is getting enough. It’s totally normal for babies to cluster feed and it is relentless but from experience, bf second time round is really tough when you have another child and not much help around you.

As others have said you have to ask yourself one huge question and that is, is continuing to breastfeed worth the detriment to your mental health ?

Your options could be …

Keep going to 12 weeks … see what improvements there are and keep getting her weighed to ensure weight gain is on track

You could try a nipple shield, to see if that helps her to latch, that is something I wish I’d have tried as it could have mimicked the feel of the bottle and could have made my baby more likely to accept the breast.

Pump and feed breast milk by bottle (this can be a lot of work though and hats off to any mums who do this for a significant amount of time)

Combi feed but your supply will drop if you arnt pumping to maintain and you will slowly transition to purely formula fed

Switch to formula now

If you want to chat message me as i know the mental battle your going through right now, it’s really tough

It broke my heart reading this. I'm so sorry about everything you went through and are still going through.

I struggled and failed to feed my first (massive blood loss and transfusion and infection - I was a mess). Really trying to make it work with my second but having a toddler makes it so much harder now that my husband is back at work! I got childcare for my toddler today and the baby has been feeding/sleeping only on me since 6am; 7 hours! Won't be put down and never full. Just not sustainable for me sadly. I'm going to give combi feeding a real shot from tomorrow and see how we get on. I just can't afford a specialist and I need to start getting some sleep to save my sanity/marriage!!

Whatever you choose will be the right choice for you. Please ask your midwives about local support/groups etc. Xx

Hey!

Congrats on new baby 😊 I also have a newborn (3 weeks tomorrow)

Your situation really resonates as we too have had BF issues and he had his tongue tie released last week. My tongue tie practitioner said it can take two weeks minimum to see an improvement as they’re essentially have to learn how to use their tongue. Did they give you any exercises to do? Is baby opening wide enough for deep latch? We pull his chin down a few times before feeding to help remind him. We also use the flipple technique. Another thing that may help is the “seatbelt” position - good for those babies struggling with fast let down.

i know formula and bottle feeding is absolutely fine (my eldest two mainly had this) but like you I really wanted to BF this time. Just want to say your feelings are valid and there’s nothing wrong with still wanting to make it happen. It’s early days yet xx

Also just to say with the clicking, I was told that if baby starts clicking or it gets worse it’s to do with the tongue having more movement now. So not necessarily a bad thing!

I was told a ‘shallow’ latch doesn’t matter, who’s to say where the line is between shallow and deep. If it doesn’t hurt and baby is drinking it’s fine. You could try nipple shields. You could also express. If she’s choking have you tried leaning to one side, so a sort of cradle, but with you kindof leaning on one bum cheek so she’s half sat up sort of diagonal, if that makes sense. It helps reduce choking. But if your only reason not to stop is you’re worried about being judged then you should absolutely stop! Who cares what anyone else thinks, you need to be ok and so does your baby

Also I find just moving the boob around a bit, pushing them on more or lifting the boob helps reduce the clicking. You’re told not to move your boob only to move them, or at least I was, but I don’t think it’s one size fits all

Hi @Teddybear120, it all sounds really hard, especially as your partner is not there to listen to your feelings. Having someone to share how you are feeling with is a really important part of your breastfeeding journey.

It sounds like your little one is actually doing really well with breastfeeding now. Gaining weight us the biggest indicator that it's working! So well done! Having a baby attached to you all the time is incredibly exhausting though. The constant cluster feeding is intense. I remember in the first 6 weeks my DD would cluster feed from around 5pm-11pm. It was SO, SO Hard! And my partner just didn't get how hard it was tbh.

But it absolutely does get easier. So, if you want to keep going then keep that in mind but if not then try not to beat yourself up. I know that's easier said than done as I had to combi-feed my first and I felt real grief over it. But your baby will be fed and loved whatever way you choose to do it.

Hello, again thank you for the messages

The feeding team ended up calling me today to see how things were over the weekend. I cried down the phone and told them about it. A lovely team member came around and watch the feed and saw the on and off, unsettled, not sure what she wants type of feed we’ve been getting. Also heard the clicking and saw the way that even though I do all the things to get her on deeply she pushes herself shallow.

We had a long chat about my feeding goals as well. And agreed the suction isn’t great. And that this on and off can’t just be cluster feeding but she is having small feeds and hence not feeling settled.

The also chatted about my mental health. They were here for over an hour. I really can’t fault them. Unfortunately there isn’t much I can do to help with the suck, latch but keep going with the exercises and correcting it when we can. However because it is impacting on me mentally they have suggested a bottle feed once or twice a day to give myself a break. So it won’t impact my supply and also to reduce risk of loosing the breast feeding we are going to do a breast feed for 10-15 mins then partner is going to offer a bottle of my expressed milk. While he is doing that I will pump to keep the supply in and have the milk for the next time. It won’t help the latch or the suck but will give me that break. My partner and I have also agreed the moment that there is any concern re weight gain that we will introduce more bottles after each feed.

I am risking getting into the feed, pump cycle that I was in last time but at the moment we are going to do it once a day and see how it goes.

I just want to say thank you for all the messages and support. Lots of different suggestions and opinions which I guess shows how much uncertainty there is when it comes to this. For those currently going through similar I’m sorry and hopefully you can find a way forward. I’m sure you ask me in 24 hours I will be upset and crying over this again but day by day atm.

I'm glad the visitor came to help you.

Just curious: what benefits of breastfeeding are you aiming for, that are worth all of this effort by and stress on the entire family? When it could be bottle and job done? I'm sincerely curious.

I am not really sure how to answer this. I don’t want to turn this into a thread into an argument of formula versus breastmilk. Particularly when I have had such lovely non judgmental support. There are lots of reasons I want to breastfeed, some are about her and some are about me. I am not ready to let go fully of that, so while it may sound like a lot of work to keep going, I am ok with that at the moment with the plan we have put in place to reduce some of the pressure. Who knows I may be fully bottle feeding soon and there is nothing wrong with that but atm it isn’t what I feel is right for us.

When you try to get a better latch it might help if you focus on the gap between chest and chin. Allowing more head bobbing which you trigger by getting the chin and bottom lip against the breast can help with this. The head being elevated so it’s tipped back can really help with clicky latches.

It sounds like you have a sensible plan and some support around you which is great. Just dont forget that the two most important things to a baby are being fed and having a happy Mummy. That emotional connection when BOTH of you are content and able to snuggle and deeply bond is often overlooked. You are very important in the equation, so dont forget to prioritize your mental health

My daughter had a swallow latch, short feeds frequently coming off and on constantly as well as being distressed during feeds. The infant feeding team were adamant I should only let her feed when she was willing to do it properly with a good latch. Half day of this and I was broken. My HV said that if she feeds and doesn't hurt me it doesn't matter how she feeds as long as she is thriving and I'm not suffering. At 17 weeks she was diagnosed with severe silent reflux having been treated for mild physical reflux and multiple food allergies. Within a week of high dose reflux treatment and me going dairy and soya free her feeding improved so much. Prior to this she was constantly in a battle of needing food, feeding hurting and wanting and not wanting to feed simultaneously. It quickly became the first warning signs that I had eaten something she was allergic too. She had issues feeding within 20 minutes of me eating beef!

Thank you. I am really focusing on the chin bit. She does latch deeply initially but she slips down during the feed and takes her head back to make it shallow herself. I suspect that it is a weak tongue/suction thing, combined with the super fast let down. We are taking steps and just doing as we can.

I am trying to make my mental health important to. I did a walk with her in the sling this morning and then this afternoon my partner took her for two hours and I had a bath which was lovely. We had a bottle of expressed milk in case she got fussy during it but she did her 12 minute feed and fell asleep so we didn’t need it. But the important thing was I got the break I needed

It is interesting you say about reflux. I do suspect that it is playing the part. We have had some arching, she sounds congested at times and she has some acid looking vomits. We might need to consider that compounding things.

So glad you got a bath @Teddybear120 , that must have felt so good!

Baths and breaks are wonderful things:)

If you don’t have pain, weight gain is good and your baby can make a deep latch but comes off to adapt to your flow I would say it doesn’t matter. Some babies click and feed for as long as is wanted. Clicking tends to stop as they grow.

Fast flow can make babies fussy when your flow slows so switching sides more often helps with mini let downs and makes the feeds quicker.

I know you worried about feeds later if that latch isn’t secure but I wouldn’t worry about that until later - it’s much less likely to be an issue than you imagine with such good gain, supply and a baby who can latch better x

Sounds like you are really going through a tough time. We had issues in the beginning as I had complications following DD birth (HELLP syndrome) and she dropped a lot of weight we were put on formula top ups but used a little cup instead of a bottle, you could try this if worried about nipple confusion. However I actually introduced a bottle at 2 weeks, baby is now 7 weeks and has 1 formula or expressed feed most days, it hasn't affected my supply and she has no problem taking the bottle at all. We use the Tommee Tippee closer to nature. I recently left her with my mum for 4 hours and she happily took 2 bottle feeds, 1 formula 1 BM. I expressed when I got home as I felt full but no problem apart from that.
You have to do what works for you and having friends and family that FF I can say it isnt a miracle solution but if it means being able to spend quality stress free time with your family and have a happy fed baby then its absolutely a no brainer.

Hi everyone.

I just thought I would update in case anyone was interested or in future comes across this with similar issues

A week on we are still breastfeeding with the occasional bottle. She still clicks a lot at the breast but she also does this with the bottle. Unfortunately she is a very windy baby as a result but this happens whether she has the breast or bottle.

We are still having times where she is very unsettled after a feed and will go on and off for ages. Sometimes I think this is because she is overtired and others it is cluster feeding and others she just likes to snack. When it gets too much for me I will give her a bottle which is saving my sanity. My partner is also doing more to help with this. As well as having a dummy when she is unsettled but not hungry.

We saw a very good chiropractor last week who specialises in infant feeding issues. She believes her tongue tie is released however her palate is very high so it makes it hard for her to form a good seal hence the braking of the seal and gulping air. She is also carrying a lot of tension around her jaw and neck. I was quite skeptical however she did some releases and she did feed better after this. We are planning to see her a few more times as even if it is psychological it helps me.

Anyway thank you for your advise and support. I’m taking care of myself better and I know it isn’t all or nothing.

So pleased to see your update @Teddybear120
Look up the tiger in the tree hold, it really helps with wind.

Glad the chiropractor has helped. I took my DD to one when she was a baby and it really helped.

It’s natural to worry and get overwhelmed, remind yourself that baby is feeding and gaining weight, and things will get better

Me too - I used to sterilise them in a saucepan.