Cluster feeding advice - at the end of my tether

[Armo24]

My daughter has just turned 7 weeks old - she’s been gaining weight well, has normal nappies and I just had my latch and her tongue checked by a breastfeeding counsellor and all seems ok. I’ve been mainly breastfeeding aside from the occasional emergency bottle. The issue is since last Friday night (so a week now) she has been feeding all evening non stop - one boob to the other, on and on, from around 6 til midnight, with my boobs feeling completely depleted. One day she did it in the afternoon around 3ish but it’s mainly evenings. I never get a break as if I hand her over she cries and starts wildly rooting again. I know she’s not actually hungry as last night at the end of my tether I handed her to my partner with a full bottle of breast milk and she drank none of it, screamed for ages and it took him two hours of endless jiggling and rocking to settle her just so I could get a bit of sleep before the night feeds kicked in. She’s not rejecting bottles as she took one when she was hungry this morning (I was too tired and stressed to feed her as she hadn’t settled all night). When will this feeding frenzy end? If it’s going to be much longer I just don’t feel breastfeeding is worth it as all I’m doing is feeding - watching endless tv, staring at my phone, chugging water and wolfing snacks like a zombie which can’t be great for bonding. I’ve tried and tried feeding lying down, loads of practise tweaking positions, etc, but just cannot get it right without my boobs (which are very big) smothering her nose and I’m too scared of falling asleep with that happening. She refuses a dummy though we try multiple times a day - covering it in breastmilk and swapping the nipple out for it, trying all the tricks. I’ve heard there’s a 6 week growth spurt but I’ve also heard cluster feeding should be 2-3 nights, not a week. Any advice would be welcome!

Omg don’t do this! What horrible advice. She could be growing through a growth spurt and actually needs that milk! Put the baby in a position they are comfortable and happy for goodness sake!

If the baby is refusing bottle top ups, the baby is tired, not hungry

@Kosenrufugirl

I agree that if she's refusing the bottle of breastmilk she's not hungry but needs comfort. But I think giving baby a dummy is less stressful for everyone than what you've suggested.

Thanks all for the different perspectives, they’re genuinely really helpful - I do think instinctively she’s sucking to get to sleep as with each round of boob in the marathon she does more dummy style sucking than swallowing and falls asleep quicker (it’s just she wakes up as soon as I move rooting furiously again until eventually she doesn’t - 11pm last night after 5 hours of this). She also really doesn’t sleep much in the day (not for want or us trying!) so maybe she is very tired. We’ve tried for ages swapping in dummies during these marathons - the tommee tippee one and the mam one, trying all the tricks, and she just looks so upset and spits them out and it just ends up being too difficult as she ends up crying. I will of course keep trying - are there different shaped dummies to these I could try as well? Not sure if I can stomach 45 hours of screaming at this point though I do agree she’s overtired not hungry. Or maybe if she’s tired I should just take her out in the pram/carrier to get her to sleep and that might fix the issue? Usually she wakes up though as soon as the pram stops or she’s out of the sling. Sorry for the rambling it’s just if I don’t genuinely have to be pinned to the sofa all evening I’d like to avoid it!

*45 minutes

The really cheap own brand (Boots I think) worked well for us.

@Armo24

We bought about ten different dummies and tried them all until one worked. Was the MAM one for us in the end that worked. I wouldn't force it on her and upset her, but for my son the second he showed the slightest acceptance of a dummy I held it in and gently shoogled it in his mouth while humming and rocking. He squirmed a bit to try and get it out but I just persevered. It was just new to him. With some soothing he accepted it happily.

Yes I’ve been using the Haaka and it is pretty good! It’s just every other day I’ll make a full bottle up in anticipation of a break and it’s a real lottery as to whether she’ll actually want it or whether she’s wanting to be on the boob for comfort and it often goes to waste. Really glad to hear your experience of this constant feeding tapering off at 8 or 9 weeks - I’m so hoping that’s around the corner.

Ok this is really helpful as I do think it’s tiredness rather than hunger at this point though it’s hard to tell. At about what age did you manage to settle into a routine? Our days are completely random which I thought was normal at 7 weeks and breastfeeding on demand - can’t imagine being able to impose nap or feeding times at this point, I can barely put her down!

That's what I’d like - just some normal evening feeds rather than this endless suckling from boob to boob. So would you do a bit of the cluster feeding then hand them over and hopefully they’d come back a bit soothed and hungry for a normal feed? We have tried that but to me it feels like “delaying the inevitable” - like just playing for time before/during the marathon as she’ll get straight back into it!

Thanks for this! That’s what I want - to use a dummy for her to suck to soothe / tell me when she’s actually hungry. Do you remember how you got him to take it? And any type that worked best?

@Armo24

Yes we bought about ten different dummies and tried them all. He seemed least resistant to the MAM one. When he tried to push it out with his tongue I just held it in his mouth and wiggled it a little and hummed and shhhd him while cuddling him close, skin to skin.

I wouldn't have persevered if he was really distressed but he was just fussing and I wanted to give him a chance to see that it could be soothing. He took to it fine after a while and it was a godsend. I had no problem telling when he was genuinely hungry or not.

Wow did you do this for 3 months?! How did you get through it?

Ok thanks this will be my mission this week!! Really appreciate the tips!

Hi there my first was a dreadful sleeper so eventually I had no choice but to tackle the sleep issue. I was walking like a zombie at 7 months. It took 2-3 hours of pushing my son around in the park every single night to get him to sleep. My husband and i used to take turns. He still woke up every hour and wouldn't settle without my boob. The method I recommended is from Baby Wisperer Solves All Your Problems book. She has different techniques for different ages. You have to be pretty desperate to try her methods. However they do work. My 2nd son got into bad sleep habits around 7 weeks. It was pouring rain on January night so no outside walk was possible. And he wouldn't settle indoors as he got used to falling asleep in the pram. So again I had no choice but to let him cry. First time he yelled for about 45 minutes. However it took less and less time and he started settling without rocking/feeding/pram rides within 3 days

This is not current advice. The current recommendation is 6 weeks. Plus I personally know a mum who tried solids at 4 months and it made no difference to sleep

Ah yes, I also meant to say about a dummie. Try to learn the suck swallow patterns - maybe go to a clinic to get a support worker to help you recognize. You don't have to let baby continue to suck when they aren't feeding (non-nutritive sucking). Absolutely try more dummies. The constant sucking will just make baby more tired. My baby like the "Bibs" dummies. They have a cherry shaped nipple. They are quite expensive but often sold cheap at tkmaxx. If baby was weighed on Friday it's probably ok and it sounds like sucking to sooth. Some babies are very "sucky" babies

I found the negativity around routine/schedules really unhelpful at this stage. I get why it's important for feeding to be on demand as that's what ensures supply and so the baby recognises when they're hungry but they don't know what to do about being tired and get grumpier and grumpier so it just gets more and more confusing if you're trying to do everything on demand!

We had a routine from 12 weeks, partly because she got more predictable by then, partly I got a book that was really reassuring and practical about routines which gave me the confidence to try. Having a consistent bedtime and getting up time really helped (all of us!), as did really differentiating between night and day.

Exactly.

With DS I was totally unprepared for the relentlessness of breastfeeding despite a very generous supply. I was brainwashed into breast is best by MW's and HV who talked it up but couldn't help with problems - at all! Some of the problems were due to my inexperience and also it hurt - a lot.

After too much mastitis I gave up when DS was 8 weeks and he transferred to formula - he and I became much happier except the guilt tipped me into depression because I thought I had failed. Some women need permission to stop.

In the first world with good, clean water, formula is fabulous if it suits you best. Frankly I found making up bottles a doddle compared to the endless hours of breastfeeding. DH could give a bottle and I could do my hair, cook the dinner, etc. BF is not compulsory and in the first world the benefits are miniscule. Your baby won't remember this time and benefits most from a happy, rested mummy.

FWIW DS developed bronchiolitis, asthma, eczema, ear infections. However DD (who I breastfed until 8 months rather than 8 weeks), also developed bronchiolitis, asthma, eczema and ear infections).

DS's uni was marginally lower ranking in his subject than DD's!! he went to Oxford, she went to Cambridge

They remember their favourite dinners, their first goal/concert, learning to ride a bike, snivelling into your neck like babies the first time their hearts are broken. Those are the things that cement relationships. Love makes you a good mother, not breast milk.

I do not doubt breast is best, but I question if it is best if mother and baby are sub optimally happy and content. This should be a happy time. All mothers struggling to breastfeed and wanting to stop should be empowered to stop and given permission to do so if that is what they want.

Feeding my dd was easier than feeding ds. Probably a combination of more realistic expectations, her feeding more easily, me having learnt how to do it and to ignore the often utter nonsense that leaves the lips of midwives and health visitors.

Good luck op. You do what you want and/or need to do in your heart.

She's using the boob for comfort instead of feeding Have you tried a dummy in between feeds ?

No you shouldn’t have to stomach 45 minutes of screaming by patting her don’t worry - silly and dangerous advice. Do what you need to do to comfort her x

Benefits of breastfeeding aren't marginal. Yes I do agree most midwives (myself included) and health visitors (from experience) don't give good advice on sleep issues. Until it is 6 months and it's controlled crying. I have 2 happy well adjusted teenagers. 2nd one had a dummy from 3 weeks, it made no difference to his sleep. I used two different methods from Baby Wisperer Solves All Your Problems book. A few days of crying once I stopped feeding them to sleep doesn't seem to have affected their development. However it massively improved my mental and physical well-being. I breastfeed both till 13 months. I doubt very much that any baby got a boob straight away in the days women used to have 10 and more children. If OP really can't stand the idea of some sleep training she could try No Cry Sleep Solutions by Elizabeth Pantley.

@kosenrufugirl thank you for your post. I looked into this very closely when midwives and a not very experienced health visitor made me feel I had completely failed my first baby.

Please could you point me to the evidence based research indicating that the benefits of breastfeeding are more than marginal in the first world, particularly when socio-economic factors are stripped out. It would also be helpful to know where that research was published and by whom it was sponsored.

Thanks in advance for providing the information upon which your statement is based.

@Armo24
"Wow did you do this for 3 months?! How did you get through it?"

Hi Op,

It was a tough 3 months, no doubt about it but things that helped were giving a bottle around 5pm (until one day she refused the bottle) and knowing that around 11pm she would usually go to sleep and not wake again until about 4am / 5am so I did get a decent chunk of sleep. She'd then feed again for about an hour and a half before dropping back off for another 4 hours or so.

I am really sorry you weren't provided with enough support on your breastfeeding journey. Many women in the UK still suffer because of this. As for the benefits of breastfeeding - please see the link below. Published in the prestigious medical journal The Lancet www.thelancet.com/series/Breastfeeding-2023