Were you formula fed as a baby?

[Janni]

Do you believe you would be healthier or more intelligent had you been breastfed?

Do you believe you were disadvantaged in any other way by being formula fed?

I was not breastfed.

I breastfed my own children for 20 months.

I realise though that I do not feel in any way disadvantaged for not having been breastfed myself.

I just wondered how others felt.

mila, yes there are problems with the eczema thing in and bf/ff. i acknowledge that and as you can see from tiktok's last post, she puts it clearly so i won't try again.

however, in my daughter's case, the only exposure to egg that she had was through my breastmilk. she at 3yo still does not eat egg products as she has always refused them. first I eliminated egg from my diet and her eczema improved a great deal after only 3 weeks. I then excluded milk from her diet (she never eats cheese either) but though i am still bfing, have not eliminated milk from mine (i only eat cheese, no other dairy products) her eczema continued to improve.

the only formula she has was a neonate because the HCPs whose care I trusted were so dire in supporting my bfing at the time. As this is early on, i know that there is a possibility that this early exposure to formula may have been the trigger in a baby who was already pre-disposed to developing eczema.

Will i ever have proof? no, and i am not looking for any. I don't lose sleep over it. I am not going to rule out the possibility either.

well, it is not TT's last post anymore, it is her penultimate post.

I think GM is over-stating the case when she says cows milk is the main trigger for eczema. Seems to be one of the main dietary triggers though www.patient.co.uk/showdoc/27000768/

"Indeed if your baby goes to nursery they are more likely to pick up all sorts of ear, chest infections etc whether they are breast fed or formula fed anyway."

NOPE. DD has been at nursery from 20 wks and will be 3yo on saturday. She has yet to have an ear infection, a chest infection, diarroeha or vomiting. She has yet to have antibiotics. She is still bf.

She does bring home cold and flu bugs from nursery but always gets over them relatively quickly. She has coslept till a month ago and fed 2 or 3 times at night too and I noticed that whenever she was coming down with a bug she fed more often.

It was our doctor I kind of marched in saying maybe it's a milk allergy, he said highly unlikely, REAL dairy allergies aren't actually that common.

Can't do links(need to learn) but if you look on the eczema site I previously mentioned and many others(that was just the one I trust) dairy not in list of causes. On the dermatology site I mentioned it states that it is not linked to diet. The main triggers are genes, allergens, stress, circulatory probs.

As I said ds had it mildly, not needed a GP visit for ages so the advice we had could be outdated, those eczema and dermatology sites could do with updating if that's the case. Strange as anything you read re eczema generally lists the triggers I mentioned and nothing else. I'm happy to stand corrected though, kind of proves my point re websites as opposed to NHS advice though doesn't it.

Tiktock I made that sweeping statement in the same way that sweeping statements have been made re ffeeding to make a point, albeit clumsily.

It also doesn't take a genius to come to the conclusion that if you stuff a load of babies and toddlers in a room there are going to be an awful lot of germs flying about. I have several friends with both breast fed and formula fed kids in nursery who are all constantly ill regardless-is good for the immunity anyhow in the long run so they tell us. SAH kids who start pre-school at 3 often come down with loads of bugs then, so nobody escapes it. Then it all starts up again when they start school-new set of germs loads of kids squashed in a room no escape so bugs galore!!!!!!

"The problem I have Sabire is with all the other ills you are attributing to ffeeding. So far you have linked obesity, high blood pressure, mental health issues oh and just now diabetes and childhood cancer to formula feeding-nice!!!!!"

No - I haven't attributed obesity etc to ff- but there are many, many studies which have made links between ff and these conditions (plus many more) which are referred to in a range of reliable literature produced by the major health organisations including the World Health Organisation and UNICEF

"Funnily enough that immense long list doesn't seem to feature on any of the gov literature re formula feeding so forgive us formula feeding mums for not paying any heed to it."

Actually it does.

The MIDIRS Informed Choice leaflet 'Breast or Bottlefeeding' produced by The Midwives Information Service (MIDIRS) which mentions under the heading "Additional concerns about formula feeding" the following:
higher blood pressure and higher cholesterol levels in ff babies
higher rates of obesity up to the age of 6
a poorer general immune response from birth when ff from birth
lower visual acuity at age 3 in ff children
higher rates of SIDS among ff children in some studies
"a signficantly lower developmental performance, educational attainment and IQ scores at age 18"
multiple sclerosis
dental problems
inflammatory bowel disease
autoimmune thyroid disease
coeliac disease
coronary heart diseas

It acknowledges that studies into these diseases and their links with infant feeding need more work.

This is from the leaflet designed for health professionals.

There is a leaflet from the same series designed for parents which doesn't mention most of these things but does mention excema, obesity and the impact of ff on IQ.

The leaflets in the Informed Choice series are considered by health professionals to be the "Gold Standard" in NHS sponsored patient information.

And if you picked up any recent midwifery textbook on breastfeeding validated by the Royal College of Midwives you'd find references to this research.

You might ask yourself why parents are not told these things - perhaps it's because there's such a MASS of research showing bf to have benefits that the government has decided only to concentrate on the most common and important illnesses.

And you're wrong about this information being used to 'frighten mums into breastfeeding'. That's not the intention. The intention in giving women this information is to enable them to make a properly informed choice. It's not about emotional manipulation or scare tactics - and suggesting it is is just another attempt to discredit the motives of those people who take an interest in this subject - to try to portray them as unkind, stupid and fascistic.....

"Tiktock I made that sweeping statement in the same way that sweeping statements have been made re ffeeding to make a point, albeit clumsily. " That's ok, then

I did rather guess you made it up, have to say.

Doesn't really help the discussion, does it?

you know Mila, my doctor also said the same, that diary allergy (and egg allergy) isn't really that common. he was really dragging his foot at having dd tested further. I insisted and had to mention a few times that we had private medical coverage so we were not even looking for testing on the NHS either.

he reluctantly agreed and gave a big sigh when asking for the referral letter to be typed up.

my only regret was that i expected this sort of reluctance and waited too long to request the tests for my daughter.

i find it amazing taht you are sure that the eczema society website (which I haven't looked at - lately anyway) is updated and correct wrt their info - and you feel they agree with your POV but think that the others are outdated - and they don't agree with your POV. Do you claim to have some insider knowledge of the inner workings of those 3 sites to confidently hold your position?

I feel like we will just go in circles so it may be my last post wrt your input.

mila, this link from the dermatology website seems to contradict what you stated earlier.

Kiskidee I think you misunderstood, I meant they ALL need updating if they're incorrect regardless of whether they agree with my POV.

Errr doesn't that site say

"there are only a few skin conditions that can genuinely be said to be caused by diet and eczema is NOT one of them"

"Sufferers are more likely to develop allergies to food and this gives confusion. It is not the allergies causing the eczema but it is the genes that make the person more likely to develop eczema and allergies."

ie it was my sons genes that caused the eczema NOT the formula exactly as we were told.

Anyhow think we're nitpicking now. Basically concerns have been raised, it would be nice if perhaps they could be taken on board as the posters involved may find they don't alienate so many women which is what can only be happening with their current approach.

Mila, as far as i can see, no one has said that Formula causes eczema.

people have said that formula may : a) trigger eczema, ie, in those who may already be predisposed (genetically) it may set it off.

and

B) where the condition exists, it may worsen eczema.

I think that both scenarios would be probable in my dd's case.

I certainly don't think dairy (or formula) caused her eczema just like how i don't think her exposure to egg in my milk caused it either.

"Some sufferers do find that some foods can make their eczema worse though this cannot be applied to all sufferers of eczema."

i am curious how you interpret the above quote from the dermatology website.

these threads are somewhat misleading , as it seems some of you are implying that bf babies dont get any of the above mentioned illness'.
my bf brother suffers from ulcerative colitus and has had to have part of his bowel removed - i believe this is classed as an inflamatory bowel disease.
i suffer from an autoimmune thyroid disease which i have been told by my endocrinologist is a heredatory complaint and not caused by feeding.
both of these are mentioned on the list posted by sabire at 17.35

See as dad who was breast fed suffers with his skin more than ff ds it doesn't seem to fit with our senario as they obviously carry the same genes and it should be the other way round. The only triggers we came across was teething even when getting the last of his teeth.

Hope you've got it under control anyhow, I really feel for kids with it. My son's was mild and that was bad enough it breaks your heart when they scratch, it must be dreadful if they're covered with it.

I found constantly applying the Diprobase(several times a day)got it under control. I tried not to use the steroid creams but did when I had to. Never used anything synthetic on his skin only organic products and Ecover washing powder and only a tiny drop of anything in the bath. Convinced if I hadn't been such an organic freak it would have been worse.

On a lighter note they do say it's better to have it young as they grow out of it rather than into it.

I haven't seen a single person on this thread saying that if you breastfed your child, they are 100% protected from certain conditions.

It's not worth arguing the case, nancy75: nobody is saying this.

I think I'd interpret that quote as referring to those who had the gene induced food allergies as well as the eczema.

mila it is difficult to compare your dad who was bf and suffers eczema with someone in the same family (a descendant) not suffering eczema but was ff.

because a totally different set of genes entered the hereditary line means that you are not comparing the same 2 scenarios.

as have been said many times in this thread about different incidences of disease, you cannot look at individual cases and draw conclusions. You can however, look at large studies which have been controlled for things like socio-economics etc, and draw general conclusions.

for many of these scenarios, ff has risks and eczema and asthma seem to be 2 things which may share that connection.

as i have said, removing milk and eggs from her diet has provided the greatest relief from her eczema than the management of creams and potions and I had to be very regimented with it or she would break out badly within 24 hrs.

she still doesn't know what soap and bubble bath is all about because we never use them on her. well dh 2x did and her whole body went red adn scratchy.

Nancy, you are typical of posters who read things that are just not there - setting up a false argument to knock down.

No one says that breastfed babies do not get ill - the conditions listed here do occur in breastfed babies.

We are talking increased risk of not breastfeeding, not 100 per cent protection.

What I find really interesting on reading so many of these posts is the underpinning assumption you can take a tiny baby during its period of most rapid growth and development, give it as its sole source of sustenance for months on end a food which lacks many of the elements of breastmilk and is different in a very fundamental way from the food that nature intended it to have - and not expect to see any impact on that baby's health, subtle or otherwise, in childhood or later life.

What happened to the concept of 'you are what you eat' that most adults acknowledge as expressing a fundamental truth that what you put into your body is always going to have some impact on your health, positive or otherwise? Why do we accept that this is true for adults and older children but completely disregard it when it comes to babies? Especially when the science is there to show us that it DOES make a difference!

We don't go by the 'I can't see it therefore it doesn't exist' philosophy in relation to our own health do we? (or at least I don't - I know people whose diets are far worse than mine who are slimmer and fitter than me - I don't for one minute assume that their being slim and fit is some sort of irrefutable evidence that a better diet wouldn't benefit them).

It's weird - it's like there's some sort of logic breakdown when it comes to infant feeding.

That should have read

"and not expect for there to be any impact on that baby's health, subtle or otherwise, in childhood or later life.

That should have read

"and not expect for there to be any impact on that baby's health, subtle or otherwise, in childhood or later life.

Lots of good, well reasoned arguments going on here (mainly). But of COURSE breastfeeding is best for babies, how could it possibly NOT be? Formula can only ever be an inferior alternative. Anyone who, for any anecdotal reason, believes otherwise is sadly misguided. The only reason there is so much 'controversy' is because every mom wants to defend her decision to formula feed. If I could have paid someone to provide breast milk for my two I'd gladly have done so. Formula is about as good a diet for babies as chips is for adults... it'll keep you alive and it'll put weight on you but it won't keep you healthy.

HG, I am not responding because you are doing the online equivalent to putting yout fingers in your ears and singing "La la la, I can't hear you".

As for the link between cows milk and skin conditions (I won't name any for fear that my dyslexia may let me down with spelling) my youngest had dry flakey skin which itched and cracked, (along with other symptoms like reflux and green mucousy stools and screaming colic) and when I took all dairy produce out of my diet, her skin became smooth and clear (and the other symptoms went away too). According to the reading I have done around 1 in 5 people are intolerant/allergic to cows milk to some degree or another, and 50% of babies with reflux show an improvment or cessation of thier symptoms when cows milk is removed from thier diet. My GP and HV are both satisfied that she has a dairy intolerance/allergy, and I was only able to reintroduce dairy foods into my diet a few months ago (she's 22 months now) as her sensitivity level is slowly dropping. They also both said that dairy foods are wel known to be one of the most common trigger foods for allergic skin reactions. Some triggersare topical (ie, flare up in the place where the substance touches the skin directly) but some triggers are systemic (ie, ingesting the trigger causes a flare up of symptoms eslewhere on the body) so to say diet is not related to allergic skin conditions is hugely inaccurate.

From a purely anecdotal view point, I work for the NHS in diagnostic radiology, we do lots of barium enemas, which visualise the bowels of patients. There has, according to the specialist radiographers and radiologists I work with, been a sharp increase in the number of these tests done on those who are currently in thier 40's and 50's, ie, were born in the 50's and 60's, when formula and early weaning with rusk type mush was recommended. The levels and severity of diverticular disease and other inflamitory bowel conditions like crohns and coeliac disease has gone up significantly. We are now seeing people in thier 40's who are riddled with diseases like this compared to fairly healthy bowels in 60 and 70 year olds (who would have been more likely to be breastfed and weaned later) . The result of infant feeding trends perhaps?

I doubt it.

I'd provide links but quite frankly it's a waste of time as no doubt someone will dispute the validity of the information, if you really want to know the truth just get busy with Google or go to your local library and read "Breastfeeding Matters" and "Food for Thought" by Maureen Minchin and "The Politics of Breastfeeding" by Gabrielle Palmer (which has just been updated and re-issued.

@rse, that meant to say "I don't doubt it"

[rolls eyes]