To night-wean or not? Sleep-deprived ramblings seeking advice.

[CorrieDale]

DD is 8 1/2 mo. She eats quite well during the day (BLW so it's hard to say exactly how much) and feeds as well as you'd expect an inquisitive 8 1/2 mo. At night she's up a minimum of 4 times, and has a feed each time. Much as I love her, this is just not sustainable - I am ferociously sleep-deprived and have a toddler to look after too. I have been co-sleeping with her but she's now so wriggly that I am not getting any more sleep doing this than I would if she were in her cot all night.

I really really want to night-wean her - at least between 10.30pm and 5am, which would account for 3 or so feeds! The trouble is she's kind of small - just sitting on the 2nd centile, having been born on the 91st. I am concerned that she needs all the calories she gets, including the night-time ones. The decision was easy with her brother because he was consuming all his calories after dark - I feel as though DD is doing her best to eat well during the day and so it seems harsh to remove the night-time snacks. OTOH she only feeds for 4-6 mins at a time (day and night) so how much is she getting from the 3 or so feeds?

What would you do/did you do, in similar circumstances?

Have you spoken to a BF counsellor as they might be able to advise you on getting her to takle more BM in the day without compromising her food intake.

My HV told me that babies should remain roughly on the centiles on which they were born so I guess if yu're worried, you could speak to a GP, although be aware that if they're not up to the BF thing, they might advise you putting your DD on the bottle!

At 8 months she probably won't be eating large amounts anyway. Could you offer the breast after each meal? Perhaps once she's got a little food in her tummy, she'll take more BM?

Corriedale, no advice im afraid but much sympathy.. My DS is 8 months, born on 50th centile and now on the 2nd is EXACTLY the same and wakes/feeds a minimum of 4 times a night. He doesnt have an ounce of fat on him and is crawling so using up everything I manage to get in him during the day. I also co-sleep (not out of choice!)
I try and make lots of high calorie foods, use lots of olive oil in cooking and have my boobs out pretty much all day anyway. I would LOVE to night ween him but I think he still needs at least 2 of the night feeds so would be so hard. We just live in hope that it will get easier... sorry

Don't I just know taht HVs like babies to stay on the same centile! But I know that DD is not a sick baby - she's very healthy, very happy, and very very active. We're seeing the HV next week for her 8 month check and I know it'll all be fine until DD hits the scales. Like mmelody, I'm trying to feed her up, and I offer her a feed both before and after a meal, and she always accepts.

I think, like mmelody, I know the answer to this - she needs at least a couple of the night feeds. Will continue to ponder - we wouldn't do anything until next weekend anyway.

My DS is really like MMelody's too.
I wasn't implying that the HVs were always right by saying they should stay roughly on the same centile because once they told me that, I panicked!

If your DD is having milk feeds before and after her meals though, that's great and as she gets a bit older, I bet she'll take more food.

It really annoys me that if our kids don't have rings of fat around their arms and legs, the HVs automatically think they're underweight!
My DS walked at 9 months so he too, didn't have an ounce of fat on him.Now he's 3, he still hardly eats a thing and is only just over the 2nd percentile. But like your LO, he's happy and healthy most if the time so I'm trying not to worry.

This happened with DS (now 12mo). After 4mo, he wasn't interested in feeding in the day, too much going on to be bothered . You have my sympathies, it is exhausting. I got little support off my HV, who would laugh and say oh little man, everytime I asked how to get more food in him in the day. (She was happy to feed her DD every 2hrs at night until she was 2).

DS weaned the puree/baby rice route, but still wasn't a big eater, so I never managed to get a lot in him until the last month or so, that his appetite has increased as he's started nursery / started moving around A LOT, etc. a friend advised me to try and feed every 2 hours in the day, e.g. if milk at 7am, then brek 9am, milk 11am, lunch 1pm, milk 3pm, tea 5pm, milk 7pm. - DS didn't always oblige and you might not be big on routine like that.

Also DS stopped the BF - last feed night before his birthday, and miraculously this last week without any warning, after months of 6 or so wakings a night, he slept from 7.30pm - 6am, and had done so for 5 nights.

I realise I'm not being that helpful or offering useful advice, but just hope it'll help knowing it's fairly common and will get better soon, hopefully all by itself.

sorry, I missed the real bit out from my response that was answering your question! (apologies for the waffle in my first post!) My HV did assure me that even though the feeds got shorter, it was because they become very efficient feeders at that age and that they take in as much as they need and are pretty good at self-regulating their intake.
Don't know if you ever express and give EBM in a bottle, but you could maybe try this to give you an idea of quantity?

Would highly recommend gradual retreat method of night weaning at this age. It worked after 4-6 weeks for my DD. Its slow progress but IMO only method to be used below 12 months. She will probably increase her day feeds as a result. One way to increase the length of day feeds is to go to a quiet room and feed laying down. Sorry complete rubbish about babies remaining on the centiles they are born - BF babies often move downwards its natural. Its normal for BF babies once they start solids to move down the centiles - milk has more calories than food. Is your DD crawling so using up her calories?

Sleep deprivation is the worst. I'm sure your HV has already suggested it but have you made sure the night feeds are not fun for her and only feeding if you are sure she is really hungry. I found that not talking and feeding in the dark as much as possible persuaded my DS to sleep through. Hard to spend the time trying to work out if she is really hungry when all you want to do is get the feed over with and get back to sleep yourself though.

I've always kept night-feeds dull and dark - DS was a shockingly poor sleeper (in a different way though) and I got into the habit with him of feeding in the dark. He regarded sleep as the enemy, to be vanquished wherever possible - DD on the other hand really likes to sleep, she just can't seem to do it for more than 4 hours (and usually it's less than 2 1/2). I honestly think that it's a combo of her being active (crawling, walking holding onto my fingers, pushing a baby walker) and having a tiny tummy - she's 8 mo but is more the size of a 5 mo. And that's what's holding me back from night-weaning all of a jolt, the way we did with DS.

I'm interested in the gradual retreat method Tapster. What did you do?