4 week old dd feeding literally all night. Very tired need help.

[Roseofsharon]

My 4 wk old dd seems to need to feed all night since she was about 5 days old.
She is bf on demand and can settle in between feeds quite well in the day but at night (from about 10pm) she is constantly rooting, and will only sleep if she is in my arms.

As soon as I put her in her cot/moses basket she wakes up and starts looking for food again. This goes on until about 5am when she suddenly goes to sleep for a few hours.

My milk supply feels very low in the evenings and I am worried she is not getting enough milk and can't settle because she is hungry.

Has anyone experienced anything similar? I would love some advice.

Your milk supply isn't low.Most babies do what is known as 'cluster feed' at night. B/feeding works on supply and demand.The more the baby feeds,the more milk is made so yuo needn't worry about that aspect.

The sleep thing is tough though.Remember her tummy is the size of a walnut so of course she needs to feed little and often at this stage (it won't last forever).

Options:

-Co-sleep (safe if you are not drinking/smoking/taking drugs)

-Sleep in the day when the baby sleeps

-Express occasionally, tank up the babe at about 10:00 pm then go and sleep alone and leave dh to feed her a bottle or two.

Can I link to a fab blog set up by a Mumsnetter?

How Breastfeeding works

Frequent feeding stimulates supply , so don'l worry it may be "low", it isn't. She hasn't adjusted to our concept of day and night yet , but will in time. Meanwhile her behaviour sounds pretty typical for a lo so try to get some rest during the day when she does. It won't last though, honestly .

Give her a dummy.

Some babies apparently have a very strong sucking reflex, although of course they do cluster feed in the evening and at night as moondog described.

You may want to try a dummy - not the right choice for everyone I know. My dd1 didn't want one, but my dd2 had one from around 4 weeks. She has started to be less dependent on it over recent weeks - she is almost 7 months. If she was hungry she spat the dummy out so there was never any confusion in our mind as to whether she wanted milk or just to suck.

This stage is so difficult, you are doing well. Don't question yourself if you are supplying enough for her.

Thanks Moondog. Co-sleeping I think maybe the way to go. I'll have to turf dh out as I don't trust him not to squash her.

I have tried expressing and to be honest I am finding it hard. I can only manage to get about 30ml out at a time which has added to the worry about a low milk supply.

Thanks for the link. I will read it now.

CoteDAzur x-post but far more succint than mine!

Just another thought, when my dd2 had very wakeful nights I tried to feed her fairly regularly in the day. I don't mean try and get her in a strict routine, what we did was perhaps wake her after 2-3 hours in the day if she was sleeping and offer her a feed. It may not work for you but it helped us.

Have you tried expressing first thing in the morning when boobs are really fu;ll?
I could do quite well with a Medela electric pump on one side while the baby fed on the other?

I wasn't a fab milker but eventually could get about 4/5 fluid ounces a day-enough for one feed.

Re the expressing. I found that I had to express at a similar time (mid morning for me) for several days in a row, before I got a decent amount. Even then some days it was only an ounce or 2. Other days could manage 5-6 oz.

Our DD was a very sucky baby and the dummy was the only thing that kept me sane in the first couple of months.

Breastfeeding is lovely and all that, but not 24/7 it's not.

"Cluster feeding" of a "tiny tummy" etc does not explain this imho, as it is not humanly possible to eat/drink for so many hours.

moondog - I sincerely doubt if OP's breasts will be really full first thing in the morning, after an entire night of feeding her DD

Message withdrawn

Bear in mind expressing is not a direct indicator of supply - sometimes it works , sometimes it doesn't. Please don't use it as a measure of being "full" or "empty" or you will drive yourself mad.

Thanks for the replies.
I had thought about a dummy and that maybe she is sucking for comfort rather than food but at this age I thought I'd better not risk that she is hungry.

I am encouraging her to feed regularly during the day so hopefully she will fill up more!

Thats interesting about expressing.I was told that what you got out was the same amount as the baby was getting at each feed.

I didn't think that sounded right.

Don't worry, if she is hungry (rather than sucky), she will just spit out the dummy and cry the house down

Message withdrawn

Roseofsharon that is a common misconception about expressing. As an example, The Babywhisperer, (who you may have heard of) writes some quite inaccurate information in her books. For example she states that mums should do a yield (i.e. express milk to see how much they have and what they express would have been the amount that the baby would have had the next feed).

Thankfully this is complete rubbish. Many times I expressed only a few drops and I know that my dd got far more than that out minutes later. Everyone who has tried to express will probably reassure you of the same.

Cote,my boobs were always full even after feeding all night!
Agree with you that some babies more 'sucky' than others though.

Will definately try and express in the morning.
Dh is very happy at the thought of being able to feed dd (if she'll take a bottle)

Thanks for all the advice. I feel more positive about it all now.

it gets a lot better! Co sleeping worked for me. maybe your wee one will be a thumb sucker if a "sucky baby"... my second baby started sucking her thumb around 4 weeks

I really sympathise with you ROS but I would try and hold off with a dummy as long as possible (I say this with a DD who is an avid dummy user).

In the early stages dummies can interfere with supply and also latch (if you do chose to try one I would suggest the tommy tippee closer to nature ones - hideous, but supposed to interfere less with feeding). I'm convinced that a dummy is the reason why bfing was painful for me for more months than it should have been as the such is different on a dummy. Also using a dummy instead of putting the baby to the breast means the breast is getting less stimulation and less milk will be produced. However I know that for some (including me) dummies can be a godsend, but knowing what I do now about bfing I would try not to use one again.

The reason why she feeds more in the evening and at night is that is when your milk is at it's richest. Co-sleeping, encouraging more feeding during the day are both good ideas. This is pretty normal for a baby this age, though that doesn't make you feel any more human!

As the others said expressing is most certainly not an indicator of what your baby is getting, but if you can express some off and get a break that would be good, that was my lifesaver! Check out Kellymom for advice on storage of EBM. You may find it keeps longer than you thought, so you can build up to a feed.

Good luck

Cote, you said, 'Don't worry, if she is hungry (rather than sucky), she will just spit out the dummy and cry the house down'....this may not be true. For some babies, yes, but not for all. I have met many, many women who gave a dummy because the baby was 'sucking for comfort', and the baby has accepted it instead of a breastfeed, rather too often. This seems to happen with placid, laid back babies. Result can be a dramatic drop in breastmilk supply and sometimes, an under-nourished baby.

Dummies should be used with care, especially with young babies. It's impossible to predict which mothers and babies can get away with using a dummy this early on.

I find a dramatic difference in my night feeds if I give a bottle of EBM for the last feed of the day (10:30pm) versus giving breast. Consistently, if I just give baby the breast, he wakes 2-3 times at night. If I give a bottle of EBM, he only wakes once during the night. For me, I think it has to do with the fact that giving a bottle gives a more efficient feed than putting my sleepy baby to the breast, where he will only take a snack-like feed before falling asleep on the breast.

I find that expressing is like breastfeeding...the more you do it, the more milk you will get out. Also, make sure that you have the correct size nipple shield. With the manual pumps (except medela), there is only a standard size, so those with bigger or smaller nipples have difficulty expressing. I have a medela swing and had to purchase a smaller nipple shield before being able to express any milk.

I have managed to express about 60ml this morning already so hopefully will have a full bottle by this evening.

Thanks tiktok for the dummy warning. I think I will leave it a while and see if things improve just using the expressed bottle.

Morningglory fingers crossed my baby does the same as yours.
I'll have to look into the nipple sheild size. I have a tommee tippe pump and it just has one size.

Are electric pumps better? Do you think it is worth getting one?

Thanks again

Brill Rose.
It's a matter of what suits you really.
I couldn't get much manually but was fine with electric. Others say the opposite.