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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

Feelign deflated after visit from HV

46 replies

rascal1979 · 04/03/2008 18:43

I have been posting for sometime on another thread about my stuggles with Breastfeeding my prem baby (born 9 weeks early).

Since leaving Nicu on her due date just over two weeks ago she has been feeding well - only from my right breast but the BF counsellor is fine with this at the moment until she is stronger and more established - and I have been feeling tons better. That was until today.

HV finally been to see us and has left me feeling

HV asked if DD was okay and if I was. Said yes that she was putting on 2oz a week and the BF co-ordinator is fine with this etc. He said that he isn't and would expect more gain. He said that DD should be feeding for 20 min each feed any less than that and she is only getting foremilk and won't gain as much. DD only feeds for 5-15 min max (about 10-12 times in 24hrs - 2-3hrs in the day and 3-4hrs at night). BF co-ordinator has said that DD will take what she wants and not to clock watch as this isn't reliable to what she is having. I have a fast letdown and good milk flow so she takes a fair amount quite easily.

He was talking about topping up with EBM or formula if she is failing to thrive in 4 wks time and refering her to paediatrics etc. But added 'But I know you are against bottles' I am NOT against bottles. What I was against is people trying to force me into bottle feeding my DD when I was/am trying to establish Breastfeeding on NICU.

In the end I was in tears - first time since leaving NICU - and just feel really deflated about the whole thing.

Since he left a few hours ago I've been having a real crisis of confidence and feel weepy and basically like I'm not doing enough for my DD

OP posts:
FrannyandZooey · 04/03/2008 18:46

so sorry - can you phone your counsellor or another bf support line and talk it over with them? the hvs often do not have the same training / knowledge as the bf advisors and although well meaning, can give incorrect information and also leave you feeling inadequate

your story sounds inspiring to me - your dd is putting on weight and you are establishing a good supply, despite your early difficulties. Sounds like a real success story so far and I am sorry that you have been left feeling undermined

2happy · 04/03/2008 18:47

I agree with bf co-ordinator. if you started a thread on MN "how long does your baby feed for" you would get hundreds of responses from 5min to and hour, and none of those is right. There is no one size fits all duration that a feed should last for. Your bf co-ordinator will have more training in bfeeding than your HV.
Also there is not cut-off point when foremilk turns to hindmilk. It is a continuum. You can't say your feed will consist of foremilk for 17mins and 45secs threfore you must feed for longer.... Grrr.
YOU ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING - all except for one thing - stop going to the HV!!!

PrettyCandles · 04/03/2008 18:47

IMO - and I've struggled to establihs bf with 3 babies, and succceeded - you need to take everything your HV has said to you, put it on the floor, stamp on it hard, sweep it up and flush it down the loo.

Are you being supported by a trained BFC from one of the recognised breastfeeding charities? If so, then follow her advice and ignore your HV.

You are doing fantastically well, especially given your rocky start.

pruners · 04/03/2008 18:47

Message withdrawn

CorrieDale · 04/03/2008 18:48

Ah yes. HVs and breastfeeding. There are MN threads going back donkeys on the subject. I'm not a bf counsellor myself (you really need Tiktok here. Or Mears) but I do know that we're all different and that foremilk doesn't just magically appear 5 minutes into the feed.

How do you think the baby is, in herself?

pruners · 04/03/2008 18:48

Message withdrawn

princessmel · 04/03/2008 18:50

Just wanted to say that I agree with the others. You're doing great. Listen to the bf co ordinator.
dd only fed for 11 minutes from a really early age and then quickly moved onto 3 minute feeds 4 hours apart. She was fine .

Original poster
rascal1979 · 04/03/2008 18:53

Thanks everyone. I'm seeing a friend tomorrow who is a pro-breastfeeding midwife so will have a chat to her and plan to speak/see my BFC later this week.

He even had the cheek to say - Oh I won't do your Edingburgh test today (for PND) cos you're upset. NO I WASN'T upset YOU UPSET ME grrrrrrrrrr

Just felt like a slap in the face after all my efforts

IMO there is also an underlying problem with the HV and NICU's attitude towards the BFC which I pointed out today to my HV. I suggested that they get it sorted as it is no good for mums and babies to be caught in their issues.

When I pointed out that my BFC and GP both don't agree with topping up he said yeah well your Dr is X...as if to say 'and she hasn't got a clue' and added that the BFC would say that!

OP posts:
2happy · 04/03/2008 18:54

Oh great, so the HV is implying deficiencies in fellow health workers... now that's professional!

Spink · 04/03/2008 18:55

ooh rascal, I am so on your behalf.
You are doing a FANTASTIC job, your lucky dd has a mum who wants to give her the best start she possibly can, it is just a shame that your silly hv hasn't been able to support you in that..
If the bf co-ordinator has been most helpful to you, stick to her advice - she will know more than the hv about feeding issues anyway. hvs seem to vary enormously in their knowledge and the info they impart.
for what it's worth, ds never fed for 20 mins each feed, much more like 10 mins, and that was every 3 hours once he was 3 weeks old, and once every 4 hours by the time he was 5 weeks (feeding on demand). The whole foremilk-hindmilk thing is controversial anyway, lots of people argue that the high calorie stuff is actually all mixed in throughout the feed, and just that there might be some waterier stuff right at the very beginning..
I hope some of that helps. oh, and try envisaging the hv naked, wearing a silly plastic nose, next time you see him....his advice won't seem to carry nearly as much weight

tiktok · 04/03/2008 18:57

rascal, this is so upsetting for you.

Of course, what the HV said just betrays his poor training and knowledge - to expect every baby to feed for 20 minutes for a start is a Big Sign he is under-trained.

It's also very unprofessional of him to state his disagreement with the bf co-ordinator so frankly. If he has disagreements about your care and the advice you have been given, he should take it up with her.

Can you contact the breastfeeding co-ordinator and explain how upset and confused you have been made to feel? Can you do that now?

claireybee · 04/03/2008 18:57

HV is talking rubbish!

pruners · 04/03/2008 19:01

Message withdrawn

NAB3wishesfor2008 · 04/03/2008 19:02

ALl I will say is some baby's are efficient feeders and can get in 10 minutes what some need 20 minutes or more to get.

Twiglett · 04/03/2008 19:06

You know you don't have to see HVs

I don't

oh and by the way I have never fed either of my incredibly healthy children for longer than 10 mins .. I have a fast let down .. and they thrived

refuse to see HV again ..

duchesse · 04/03/2008 19:23

baby 1 -DS fed for 45 min every two hours
baby 2 -DD1 fed for 5 min every three hours
baby 3 -DD2 about 15-20 mins every 3-4 hours.

The point is, they all grew. Admittedly my daughters, like yours, gained only 2oz a week from birth, but they are healthy, and were then. The only difference between how I felt about their feeding was in how I was made about their feeding and growth by the two very different HVs. Hang in there, stick with your BFC's advice in terms of feeding- they know a fair about the subject.

Original poster
rascal1979 · 04/03/2008 19:27

Thanks everyone. I'm getting her weighed tomorrow - fingers crossed she will have put on 4oz and I can blow a raspberry to my HV. But even if she hasn't I don't care!

OP posts:
3littlefrogs · 04/03/2008 19:31

I used to be a HV - before I trained as a midwife. HVs don't have much training in breast feeding. It is not the main focus of their job. HTH

StealthPolarBear · 04/03/2008 19:32

If you are going to complain then I would definitely say something about the "against bottles" comment, that to me sounds like you were almost being accused of being awkward by wanting to bf, which is completely contrary to NHS advice (assuming the advice is the same for prem babies where possible).
Or am I reading too much into that comment - feel free to tell me if you think I am

pamplemousse · 04/03/2008 19:34

HV are good at making you feel rubbish ime. BF counsellors know A LOT about bfing and wouldn't put your child at risk.
It sounds like you are doing brilliantly. I know what its like when you get your confidence knocked, I have 'declined' my HV's 1 year visit, much to her disgust, I am happy, dd is happy, why bother with all the chit chat they tend to come out with?! I'm sure there are good HV's out there, but they seem few and far between.
Well done to you for sticking at it.

pruners · 04/03/2008 19:36

Message withdrawn

AdamAnt · 04/03/2008 19:44

Sorry - haven't had a chance to read all of the thread, but just wanted to say that both of my DCs only fed for a max of 10 mins at a time (often less). I worried about it dreadfully! They grew fine though - DD ended up a skinny minnie and DS (18 months and still BF) is fairly chunky.

AitchTwoOh · 04/03/2008 19:46

oh littlerascal, it sounds like you're doing well to me. kudos to you.

lackaDAISYcal · 04/03/2008 19:47

just wanted to add my and to the way you have been undermined, when it looks from here like you have done all you possibly can to get BFing back on track after what sounds like very difficult circumstances. Instead of undermining you in this way, your HV ahould be holding you up as a shining example to other women who are in similar circumstances.

I would complain to your PCT about feeling undermoined by him and giving you contrary advice to the BFC, and for the sniping he has done regarding your GP and BFC. Totally unprofessional imho.

Talk to one of the BF support lines tonight if you can, and your own BFC in the morning, and remember you are doing a great job

Lizcitral · 04/03/2008 20:01

Hear hear to everyone who says you're doing a great job.
Fwiw, my dd and I had every bf problem under the sun (although she wasn't premature) - my partner used to think the hv deliberately came round to make me cry with pressure to top-up with bottles, just so she could write 'Mother upset but managed to calm her' in my notes...
Overdue 8 days with baba 2 now and fully expecting same load of conflicting advice and bs about bf... but this time I'm following my own instincts and I know I don't have to let the hv in!

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