Is it really possible to have a routine with a BF baby?

[lazyhen]

I have a 6.5 week old DD (1st child), and I have struggled with BF since the beginning. She was 6lb6oz and is now 8lb2oz so I'm happy that she is thriving now and I am finding it easier, but it is VERY frequent.

I have read a couple of the 'popular' baby books which seem to contradict each other, but there does seem to be a theme about limiting time on breasts and spacing out feeds to 3hrs.

My DD sleeps well at night and wakes about 3.5 hours but is much more frequent during the day, and I'm finding it really tiring.

So - what are peoples experiences and thoughts about this?

I echo those that say let the baby lead for the first six months or so. I have a 5 month DS and I have tried so many times to get him in a routine, but his needs change so fast just when I think I've got something going, everything changes!

Our happiest days are those when we got at his pace- I learn more about him that way, and he is much calmer. I felt like you about breastfeeding for ages, but now I'm approaching weaning, although I'm going to keep going with BF too, I feel a bit sad about it! Keep going- you'll be glad you did.

I know we have to be a bit careful discussing anything to do with Gina Ford here, but I would really like to know if anyone has been successful at following the routines from day 1 whilst breastfeeding. I just can't see how it can be done without sacraficing your baby's needs at some point - i.e trying to get him to sleep at a set time before he/she has finished feeding.

Incidentally I keep thinking that at 8lb2, although my DD is doing well, she is still smaller than alot of newborns anyway.

I know quite a few mums who tried to do Gina's routines with a BF baby and got v stressed but none that actually succeeded so would be v interested in this too. Might just be my experience and never actually tried it myself. Agree with other posters. We had a rough routine which basically fell into 4 hourly feeding from about 6-8 weeks but DD was 8lb 7oz born so a bit easier to do. Didn't stick to anything too strictly, don't know how people manage it! Agree with your point that at 8lb 2oz your DD is still comparatively small and I think size is often a better way of judging what your baby needs than no of weeks old they are. Took about 6 weeks for my DD to stop catnapping during the day (20 mins was common) and start sleeping for an hour or more at a time and it was around that time that she got herself into roughly a 4 hour routine. Think JinglyJen made a good point - it sounds as if you're doing fantastically so I'd just try and keep going as you are

Yes, both DC fell into a routine. That routine constantly evolved as they got older but routine there was. I never minded feeding on demand, the great joy of breastfeeding is that there is always a supply to hand, no faffing with blardy bottles.

lazyhen, i used gf's general timings as a guide. you don't need anything else from that book really.

i never restricted time on a breast - feeds took as long as they took. but i did try to stretch them out to approx. 3 hourly intervals. ultimately you have to go with your baby - if they need feeding more often, then that's it.

have faith in yourself - you know your baby best.

I ahve managed GF routines. dd1 was a natural (I only discoered this after a friend mentioned that the routine dd1 had fallen in to was a GF routine - dd1 was about 10 weks old by this point)

I got the book, read it, and indeed it made sense for dd1.

She was, and is, a brilliant sleeper, eating was great until this year (she's 3.6) but I think it's her autism causing problems. Breastfeedind went brilliantly, and she is a happy, healthy little girl.

With such a success, I tried it for dd2 from the start, although not in a rigid way (ie if dd2 was hungry/upset then she got comfort/milk, especially as a newborn)

We ahd to tweak the routines anyway, as life inteferes, so they are not so much classic GF routines with dd2, but a hint of GF plus daily life.

I ex bf dd2 until 6 months, then started weaning. She is still bf 3x daily now, and she turned 1 a couple of weeks ago.

I am lucky in that I do think I have daughters who like their routine (in hindsight, it was essential for dd1 with her autism, really feel it helped her know what was going on, but dd2 is NT so far, and also likes her regular naps)

You do have to go with what suits your baby - it would be tough (and unfair) trying to coax an unwilling baby inot a routine, I tihnk

We have (ds 7 weeks tomorrow) a sort of a routine because me eldest goes to school.. so we have a really short feed most days in the morning and then he zonks out for a couple of hours and then I wake him, we sit down and have a really good cuddle/feed.

Without fail I offer him the breast before we collect my son too, because I don't want him to be starving if I leave it until we have my son.. then the evening has turned into a good old feeding session and we get a lot of alert time before we all go to bed.

I am feeding on demand, but the above has turned into a routine, so there is some sort of routine to our day!

I tried bf-ing with the Baby Whisperer and failed. Still resent the title "accidental parent".

I looked at GF's routines and laughed. No Way my baby would follow that. Both had minds of their own. Bf-ing every 2-3-4 hours just does not happen with bf-ed babies unless you have babies that are guzzlers, your breasts can store a LOT to deliver at one feed (storage capacity is individual to a woman. I am not referring to supply which is almost always sufficient if a baby is put to the breast on demand) and your baby generally is quite content and does not demand much.

There is a danger that if you have a placid baby who does not demand and you try to schedule the feeds every 4 hours, that it could sabotage bf-ing (along with the ridiculous expressing and top-ups). In extreme cases, this could lead to dehydration and failure to thrive. This is a well-documented risk of 4-hourly scheduled feeds, not referring to GF routines or bf-ing in particular.

I did GF with my DD who was bottle fed from about 1 week old because of horrid crash c-section and inexperienced me and bad HV and Midwife care. She took to it so well, slept through from 12 weeks and has always been a brilliant sleeper (now 2.6 and sleeps until 8am). Clever me I thought - I'll do the same with DS, but was determined to breast-feed. He's now 6 months, and do you think he's even close to being in a routine? Forget it. It's not the breast-feeding, it's just him - he's not a baby that will be dictated to. I also wish I had known more about BF-ing (i.e. discovered mumsnet) before I had him. He's onto bottles now as I am back to work FT on Monday, but I did try too hard (i think) to put him onto a feeding schedule when he was about 3 months old, which I think made us both miserable. It's hilarious - I don't intend to have any other babies, but I feel like if I did, third time round I might finally get it right! In some ways the routine book was helpful to me as a first time mum, but looking back I had such an easy baby anyway, am sure she would have sorted herself out. She always settled like a dream without a dummy etc. DS still can't go down without one. I can still hear stupid remarks from the baby books ringing in my ears - I wish I could erase all knowledge of them sometimes. They are so outdated, for the most part. You are doing great for a first time mum - and apparently a magic turning point is 4 months. It'll fly by - go for it, and keep posting here if you need moral support.

I'm so glad to hear that it's not just me..!

I think another problem with a 'routine' is that you just end up missing out on time cuddling etc as you're clock watching. I am determined to try and relax, go with the flow and return the bl**dy books to the library!

Thank-you everyone!

lazyhen - i think a routine is more for the parents than the baby. if you're the type of person that likes to plan your day, then routines are great. nothing is written in stone. having a routine doesn't mean you don't get to cuddle your baby, and it doesn't mean you can't be flexible if you want to.

We worked out quite early that exbf could have a feed, change and then we had about 1.5hrs before another feed was required - enough time to get to the park for a bit of fresh air and home again for another feed. Working out when you can do this sort of thing, and how long you've got is really helpful as you can get out to 'normal' places (as opposed eg to going to bf-friendly coffee mornings etc). Ds was 10.5 at birth though, so could probably take in more and started from a much larger basis.

Don't try to change the day if the night is going well as you might adversely affect the night - and you really don't want to do this, believe me!

You're doing really well, hope that you can work out what the 'routine' is that fits with the two of you.

My immediate thought was that I feed on demand, but then I thought I bit more and realise I don't really! I have 2 other kids, and so there was already a routine of sorts in the house and so ds just kind of fitted in! I feed him pretty often during the day, depending on when he is awake, varies between 1.5-4hours between feeds, but I often feed him just before we take dd1 to nursery, or just before we walk the dogs. I don't think he's ever really cried to be fed! Even when he wakes in the morning, he just makes little grunting noises. I do believe in feeding him often during the day, as he sleeps for a good couple of 6 hr stretches at night.

I agree with taking bits out of different books. I too used GF as a rough guide to nap times, just to see what she "prescribed" but never even attempted her routines- she doesn't encompass walking dogs, attending gymnastics classes, etc! I liked the Baby Whisperer- she made me feel calmer!

routines and bf are like oil and water imo.
dd is 8 months never had a routine fed on demand, which was a hell of alot in the early days, but it was really a blessing in disguse as she started sleeping thorugh at 3 weeks and has slept though [ 14 hours] everynight since 6 weeks, so looking bck i think dd was tanking up in the day. and shes a very happy baby now which i think is partly down to the fact all her need where met straight away when she was smaller and she has a great snse of trust in me.
well thats what i think anyway !!!

no

much easier to have routine with a ff one

The only reason people think it's easier to have a routine with a formula fed baby is because you feed them when you are told they need food, not when their body tells them.

i have 3 and have done bf, mixf and ff and i think its easier to have a routine with a ff one
not sure why the face tbh

Because surely a baby needs foo whe it is hungry? Be it breastmilk or formula.
So should be fed on demand, which will make a routine just as hard/easy no matter how they are being fed.

yes well they are fed on demand in the early days arent they but the whole nature of formula being heavier on their stomachs and taking longer to digest often means you do have a certain routine with them quicker.

Mind you when mine have been and are breastfed they just want to be constantly near me. I cant even nip to the co-op

I am not suggesting anyone ff so they can have a routine either. I was just stating what I found

To put my 10 pence worth into the discussion ...

I followed Gina Ford routine with my DD from when she was 4 days old (when my milk came in), and she was exclusively breast fed (plus bottle of ebm for dream feeds and when we had a babysitter) until she was weaned. So, it is possible. Having said that, I did GF without limiting my dd's time on the breast (though she was always textbook and took exactly the length of time GF dictated). Also, I never believed a breast could be 'emptied', but I changed breast anyway because it gave my dd a second wind to take more milk when I did this, and I never dropped the mid morning feed until a few weeks ago because DD is a small baby and I wanted her to have as much milk as possible. Consequently, apart from night time feeds, she's never cried for a feed and rarely cries for a sleep because I've always anticipated her need before she has to 'ask' for it, as it were. In fact, she rarely cries now and everyone always comments how 'contented' she is.

I completely understand that GF doesn't suit all, but it suited me because I can't operate in chaos and as a first time mother, the book gave me confidence to know why my baby might be crying. DD loves routine - I think it must make her feel secure - even now, at 9 months, she follows the Gina Ford routine.

Not sure if I've been just lucky with dd or the next dc will be as Gina Ford friendly.
My advice would be, do what suits you - if you're skeptical about routine and breastfeeding, then don't do it because more than likely it won't work for you.
In short, it's possible to have a routine with a bf baby if you want it to be, but it;s not possible if you don't.

Tea71, glad GF has worked for you.

I had earlier listed the reasons for how GF can work for a certain type bf-ed baby and it looks like your dd fits the bill.

"In short, it's possible to have a routine with a bf baby if you want it to be, but it;s not possible if you don't."

Agree, it is definitely possible to have a routine (not necessarily GF routine) with a bf baby. But I would say that it is possible to not succeed with a GF routine for a bf-ed baby Even IF you wanted it and tried very hard. By all means give it a go, but don't beat yourself up watching the clock and traumatising baby if it is not working.

blueshoes - completely agree with you, though by the same token I'm sure it;s possible not to succeed with a GF routine for a ff baby too. Important thing is to do what suits you, your dc and the rest of your family.
A GF routine suited me with my one and only dd, but not sure about the next dc as I will have two to juggle.

Both my dds have been exc b/fed. dd1 until 5 months, dd2 until 25 weeks (she is just over 6 months now)

I have treated them exactly the same (as far as I can tell, however dd1 fitted beatifully and almost automatically (i.e. not much encouragement from me) into a "GF type" routine.

Dd2 has made her own choices (!) and they don't involved sleeping well. If I am up twice in the night I consider myself lucky.

Both dds are (imo obviously) very contented and gorgeous little girls. Lack of routine for dd2 has not affected her level of contentedness. I accept that they have different temperaments.

Lots of people (inc me in the past) will base their advice on what their dc1 was like, not realising that they may have been lucky/had a baby that loved routine. Often changes when you have more dcs ime.