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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

So tell me something! Humour me please!!

26 replies

SparklyGothKat · 01/03/2008 11:05

Why do the red books still have bottle feed baby charts and not Breastfed babies charts, when they were released in 2006? Why aren't HCP giving out these charts to BF mothers? It would save a lot of heartache for BF mothers whose babies are small..

OP posts:
rascal1979 · 01/03/2008 11:07

My HV gave me one

rascal1979 · 01/03/2008 11:07

A BF chart that is

bluenosesaint · 01/03/2008 11:09

I have a BF chart. My baby was born July 07.

LOL rascal

S1ur · 01/03/2008 11:13

Depends on health authority.

My sis and my ds' were born two weeks apart.

She got a bf chart in Northamptonshire and I got a bottle one in South Yorkshire.

When I asked for a bf one my hv thought I was making it up! So I sourced them for her and found a supplier, gave her the website next time she mentioned it.

Nothing come of it though.

But I never weigh the dcs now, too much heartache and unnecessary worry. Realise you position wityh Calum is a bit different though.

SparklyGothKat · 01/03/2008 11:14

I haven't been given one, I went through all that heartache with Callum, and according to the BF charts Callum is on the 25th precentile, yet on the bottlefeeding one he is on the 2nd. I know that now we have dropped the formula he might drop back onto the 0.4th line, which is where he was following before we cracked under the pressure from the HCPs

OP posts:
TheBlonde · 01/03/2008 11:18

I didn't think they were bottle fed charts - I thought they just included all babies

bluenosesaint · 01/03/2008 11:20

TheBlonde - the 'standard' charts are based on information gathered years and years ago with bottlefed babies, IIRC.

Joolyjoolyjoo · 01/03/2008 11:21

I didn't even get a red book for ds !!!! And he's not ben weighed since he had his 6wk check (at 11 weeks!!) They seem to be very lax here , but on the plus side, he is a happy wee chubster, so I don't worry. Could you get a bf chart thingy on-line??

S1ur · 01/03/2008 11:21

Well if you have access to bf charts sgk I'd look at those not the others. In fact burn the others so you are not tempted to do your head in!

annonimoss · 01/03/2008 11:22

I can't tell which one mine is - would be interested to find out!

SparklyGothKat · 01/03/2008 11:22

have found one that i will print out. Callum is 23 weeks now and weighs 11lb 5.

OP posts:
S1ur · 01/03/2008 11:25

[[http://www.healthforallchildren.co.uk/pro.epl?DO=PRODUCT&WAY=INFO&ID=216 charts available here]

But you have to buy in bulk, guess we could distribute on mn....

madamy · 01/03/2008 11:25

The standard charts are actually based on babies where there was no distinguishing between breast or bottle feeding (I'm sure tiktok has to mention this at least weekly!).

S1ur · 01/03/2008 11:25

charts available here

bluenosesaint · 01/03/2008 11:27

I stand corrected madamy

SparklyGothKat · 01/03/2008 11:29

am going to order 50 of those, and give some to the BF clinic to give out

OP posts:
madamy · 01/03/2008 11:32

I'm just recalling tiktok! The main difference if I remember rightly is that breastfed babies gain faster until 4 months-ish, then their weight gain slows down in comparison to bottle fed babies. So if you have a slow weight gaining baby uner 4 months, they will be 'lower' down the chart on the breast fed charts. The main advantage to the charts is that when your breastfed baby slows down after 4 months, the breastfed chart allows for this thus stopping the hv and other profs from freaking out!!

S1ur · 01/03/2008 11:34

you can download versions from kellymom and who website

But the link gives the same format as the red books so you can slip them in.

SparklyGothKat · 01/03/2008 11:36

have ordered some. I am going to give some to the BF clinic HV and keep some back for Mnetters

OP posts:
S1ur · 01/03/2008 11:37

good for you SGK! I might do same.

Next paycheque

SparklyGothKat · 01/03/2008 11:42

It just seems strange to me, that the hospitals are supposed to be 'baby friendly' and still give out the wrong charts for BF babies, surely they should have both?

OP posts:
StealthPolarBear · 01/03/2008 12:40

well they're not really the wrong charts, it's just that now charts are available which distinguish feeding method. Previous charts just didn't take feeding method into account.

tiktok · 01/03/2008 13:18

The issue is not the charts....the charts in current use are not the 'wrong' ones, and madamy is right about them. The charts in the UK are based on many babies whose feeding is not differentiated, though common sense suggests many of them will have been formula fed.

The 'breastfed' charts are virtually the same - apart from the fact that breastfed babies tend to gain weight faster at first but this does not show up massively. It does mean that babies who are small when young will look even smaller on the WHO charts, so using these charts to make the mothers of smaller breastfed babies better will not be successful. Yes, I do say this about once a week on mumsnet!

However, when babies get to be about 4-5 months, the charts start to look a bit different and by the time the baby is aged a year, there is a wider gap.

In the UK, there is a pilot study to test out the WHO charts in terms of their effectiveness and applicability, and in the way HVs and others use them, so we know how to introduce them nationally.

That's the right way to go about things - carefully, thoughtfully and reflectively. Any training needs that arise will be shown up by the pilot study. It is almost certain the UK will adopt the WHO charts, but it is crazy just to sub the current charts with the WHO charts without training and understanding - and it may harm babies and breastfeeding if this happened.

It's fine for informed parents and others to consult the WHO charts on an individual basis - but please, don't call for a universal change over in the red books just yet. We will get into a proper mess if this is done.

tiktok · 01/03/2008 13:20

Sparkly....please, please don't give out the charts to the baby clinic. These are materials that need to be used alongside better training. All that will happen is that small breastfed babies will look even smaller, and the HV will insist on formula.

If you have spare money, offer to pay for some training.

verylittlecarrot · 01/03/2008 13:56

sorry folks, I suspect I may have sort of kicked this off with my paed thread. I knew that because babycarrot is now 7 months, the WHO charts would work in our favour, and the paed would hopefully have enough of an understanding to see that the charts were more applicable to her.

But I never mentioned the charts to any HCP whilst she was younger because I knew at that time she would have looked worse, not better, and sadly, many HVs do not have the training or the 'nous' to use the information wisely and support breastfeeding still.

I was selfishly being very selective in choosing my tools to make my case. But in the wrong hands, those tools can become 'weapons' to be used against you.

sorry if I've stirred things up a bit.

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