Losing all confidence in breastfeeding 6 day old

[Oceansinourway]

I am at a loss: have had support from the infant feeding team and various advice but I suppose there is a limit to what anyone can do.

My baby appears to hate breastfeeding: she latches on sometimes but comes on and off, getting increasingly worked up and frustrated until she is bright red and furious and it’s horrible to see. In the end you have to give her a bottle to calm her down so of course she’s developing a bottle preference. Other times she feeds fine but the unpredictability of it is awful and i am starting to dread each feed.

I am considering formula feeding her but since she can breastfeed I would prefer to persevere. I just honestly don’t understand where we are going wrong.

Sorry to ask the obvious but have you had her checked for tongue tie?

Not at all, she doesn’t have a tongue tie although this is going off the hospital which I know isn’t as ‘thorough’ as privately, but the fact she has managed to breastfeed successfully suggests to me she perhaps doesn’t. But I am not an expert.

Yeah using a bottle won't help. It won't help your supply and she'll get used to the feel of a bottle rather then your nipple.
How is your supply? If you're getting stressed it won't help with the let down reflex. I would have to sit down with a big drink of water and breath deeply for the let down reflex to happen if I was stressed.

I'm probably not the best person to give advice on this but here goes...(I'm mixed feeding with boob, pump and formula)

I wish I had stuck it out more but baby wasn't gaining weight and was born tiny. Also had issue with blood sugar regulation and jaundice and was born at 37 wks

But, it sounds like your baby is getting fusterated by how hungry she is. Mine dis the same. I found what worked was as soon as baby was awake or even stirring, I offered breast before baby could get worked up. It helped give us a consistent latch. Several weeks on and baby can get into a hot mess if I don't offer breast immediately. Otherwise, its been fine, once the sore nips settled down

Supply is fine. I know using a bottle won’t help and I keep reading this but very genuinely, what else do you do if your baby just won’t feed? I can’t starve her (I know you weren’t suggesting I do, it’s just I honestly don’t really know what the alternative is?)

My baby was tongue tied and was still able to feed so double check the tounge tie.

Yours sounds like my first one, I had a fast let down so basically she was latching but then it was coming through so fast she would gag and then get annoyed and refuse more.

I used to express a little before which helped massively. Also lay back when feeding as it will make a more controlled flow for them. Also was told its not as easy for them to unlatch

Good luck

@Oceansinourway has she been using a pacifier so far? I had a horrible start with breastfeeding due to low supply and a suspected posterior tongue tie so I completely understand how you are feeling. I also gave a few bottles of formula a day as well as I didn't want him to go without. I never exclusively breast fed and continued to give a few bottles a day until he was 12 months but I did manage to keep breastfeeding for all that time too which wasn't easy. Thankfully things improved I think his tongue tie resolved itself with time. It took months though before it got easier!

I haven’t yet mastered laying back and letting her latch - must try to watch some videos. I’m at a loss and trying not to feel annoyed with myself because it does feel as though I’m missing something obvious but I don’t think I am: we just are struggling, and it’s horrible when you end up formula feeding without really having made an active choice to do so if you see what I mean.

I am definitely not against some mixed feeding, whether formula or expressed breast milk. Just worried it’s going to sabotage us, but equally I can’t starve her … arghh. I forgot how stressful feeding babies is!

@Oceansinourway yeah I was handed formula in the hospital due to him losing weight so it was pushed on me and wasn't planned it's not ideal when you have to give it because breastfeeding isn't going as planned. I did keep it up though as it also let my husband do a couple of feeds a day and it really didn't impact his feeding on me as he got better with time and eventually latched on and fed without any issue so try not to worry about confusion over bottle/nipple. You forget the babies have to learn how to feed properly as well it's not always a simple latch and go.

Sometimes I think we put too much pressure on ourselves. The baby will know what to do more than you as its instict for her. Let her guide you.

With laid back, you could start as you normally would, then just slowly recline yourself. I used to lay down and then my husband would put the baby on me as I was so bad at getting comfy.

You could also try laying on your side. Lay baby next to you and then bring her to you while she's on her side (love this one as you can have a little snooze too)

Shes only 6 days so don't be too hard on yourself. You need to do what's right for both of you so you may have to do formula then once you are established with feeding you can ease it out.

Have a look at Katherine stagg, she's great with breastfeeding advice x

My daughter didn't even latch for the first time until she was 4 weeks old, I was expressing and bottle feeding until then, so you're already miles ahead of where I was at that stage. We ended up transitioning to exclusive breastfeeding over the course of a few weeks, and I am still breastfeeding at 1yr 9 months.
While I joined breastfeeding groups, saw lactation consultants etc. I don't really think any of that made a difference. What helped was time - my daughter got stronger and more awake/ less of a sleepy newborn which allowed her to start attempting to latch. She was rubbish at it initially and clearly preferred the bottle, but I persevered with practising breastfeeding at the start of every feed (and then finishing with a bottle of expressed milk) until she gradually became better and better at it. Eventually she would transfer milk just as easily from me as she could from a bottle, and she was taking less and less from the bottles I offered at the end of breastfeeds, as she was getting more from my boobs. I then started swapping out one bottle for a breastfeed at a time until we were exclusively breastfeeding.

Your baby is only tiny. She's only just started learning how to do this. Keep practising, and protect your supply with a pump in the meantime!

Really recommend looking at a koala hold or slightly laidback position. Sounds like you might have a fast let down, so you could try hand expressing a little first too. Go skin to skin whenever possible. Keep going OP you're going great and congrats on your lovely babe!

Thanks, both of you and for the Katherine stagg recommendation. They were really kind posts - needed to read that! It can feel almost personal when your baby seems to hate feeding 😂

@Oceansinourway whilst you have read all of the books and received the guidance, your baby hasn't. Each child is different and they all take their own time to learn. I remember all of my babies crying and turning their heads, seeking the nipple that was right in front of them!

Please give your baby and yourself time... you both need to learn.

I remember with my third, it took us a good month to get established. Even though I had already successfully EBF two before him. It was very hard, and if he had been my first, I am sure I would have gone over to bottle feeding as I was so distressed. I even expressed and syringe fed him a little bit to be sure that he was getting something.

Then... everything fell into place.

Tricks that helped me were a) lashings of lanolin to help with cracked nipples
b) the toe curling won't last long
c) having a nice cushion and getting comfortable.
d) concentrating only on the baby during feeding times. The dishes can wait. Watch tv if you want... just hold and sooth your baby.
e) make sure you have eaten. You need your energy. (I drank lots of lemonade and water, as I was so thirsty!)

6 days old is so tiny and new. Keep going...

Ps: this difficult feeder fed for 2 years in the end. (And DC4 BF for 3 years!)

Big hugs

My son was like this, I mixed fed until 3 months until I gave up and just kept him on a bottle. Best decision I ever made. He didn’t have a tongue tie. My daughter( first child), complete opposite. Breastfed until 16 months and she would never take a bottle. I would say keep trying, keep offering the breast even if you do decide to give him a bottle. Offer him the breast first, both breasts and if he’s still hungry top up with the bottle. It’s so hard and stressful, I relate to you there, I remember feeling so down that my son wouldn’t take to the breast as that what I had wanted to do from the start. As long as baby’s happy and fed and you’re less stressed in the end and feel more at ease. That’s all that matters.

I wouldn’t trust the hospital about tt. Find some private and get it checked out. Doctors, HV, midwife’s etc didn’t see my sons. He could feed but only took enough to satisfy but didn’t put on weight. We got through it with top ups and at 3 months he bf till I stopped at 15 months with no bottles.

@justrude thats exactly what DD does, screams and arches away! I feel like saying ‘it is THERE!’ Thank you 😂

My nipples were painful initially but not so now - bit worried that it’s because she hasn’t fed enough. But then I am pumping and she has managed some really successful breastfeeds, it’s just so inconsistent.

Thanks @Zinfandelfoot , I do want to try and persevere, I just wish it was slightly easier.

Loads of skin to skin will help. Basically set yourself up on the sofa or in bed for the day with things you need handy. Then strip baby to just nappy and take your top and bra off and lie baby on your chest (with blanket over body if cool where you are). This will help so much with your milk supply and the touch and smell you transfer to each other will keep you both relaxed. I had my children in Germany where women who want to breastfeed are basically expected to do this for the first week and this period of bonding is taken very seriously. I second the recommendation of Kathryn Stagg, really excellent and research based advice.

Oh yes. I remember a group of mums at playgroup telling me that their babies all did it too. I guess it is a very common thing?

)You can freeze your breast milk btw. It is excellent for eye and ear infections, and can be kept for 3 months for feeding, (I think? It's been 5 years since I stopped). I always had some in the freezer. Another friend used to mix them in the babies food or even make pancakes with them. So that expressed milk won't go to waste. It's liquid gold!)

Feel free to DM if you need to chat. But what you are describing sounds totally normal for the stage you are at.
Keep going!

OP the early days of getting breast feeding established are so very tough, you are doing an amazing job.

I wanted to echo previous comments on tongue tie - my baby's tongue tie was severe and obvious (just wasn't treated until 4 weeks due to COVID restrictions at the time) but I know of others with more minor or posterior ties that weren't picked up until the babies were several weeks old.

There's a good reason combi feeding isn't recommended during the first 8 weeks as it makes breast feeding more difficult. But I had to introduce a bottle at 11 days due to issues mentioned above. This meant expressing to maintain/establish my supply, giving bottles of both formula and expressed milk, and continuing to breast feed. Was a very, very difficult few weeks and was only possible with the support of my DP who did all the bottle feeds (I didn't want baby to associate bottles with me). But once the tongue tie was snipped we got into a routine of breastfeeding at all feeds except one bottle of formula in evening. I then breastfed for well over a year. So I wanted to offer hope that even if the early days don't go to plan, this doesn't mean you won't be able to breast feed long term.

A few tips given to me if you do need to combi feed in early weeks

• breast feed overnight. It's vital to be feeding between midnight and early morning as that's when prolactin levels are highest and stimulates your supply for the next day. (Alternatively you could express overnight but that's arguably making more work for yourself).
• use paced bottle feeding as this more closely mimics breast feeding.
• If you are giving bottles you ideally need to express. I was told not to worry about how much I was expressing - that time was more important (I think I was told 20-30mins each side, I hired a double pump).
• Alternatively you could combine breast and bottle within each feed i.e. breast for 10mins that finish feed with bottle, or start with a small amount of formula and then finish on breast.

I'd really recommend getting professional advice from a breast feeding specialist midwife or breast feeding consultant. The Kelly Mom website is also really good.

All best wishes OP.

@Oceansinourway sorry you're having such a tough time of it - and that your baby is too. I don't think I've ever felt like I did when I was struggling to breastfeed my first (during 2020 so no help available). Some days I'd wake up and be positive about trying some new position or hold, in case that made the difference, other days I'd just cry. My son is still BFing at 3, so we got there in the end, but really wanted to send a lot of sympathy as the pressure and desperation is so real and it can be hard to find your way out of it (particularly with the added sleep deprivation on top).

A couple of things that helped us:

1. you didn't mention whether you're in pain during the feeds or not (sorry if you did and I missed it) - if so, the multi mam compresses were the only thing that helped me (lanolin did nothing).
2. as others have said, it sounds like your baby is getting very frustrated at the breast. There are two things this could be down to: very fast let down, so milk is coming out too fast, or things are too slow and she wants more. You haven't said what happens when she latches on and off - does your milk spurt halfway across the room, or is there not to see? If it doesn't spurt and she's not dribbling/having milk come out of her mouth, then my guess is it's not fast let down. If things are too slow, then you could try doing a bit of hand expressing whilst she's on and some breast massage beforehand, to see if that gets things going faster. I'm also assuming that you're feeding to demand at the moment rather than any kind of schedule, but it might be, as someone else suggested that she's too hungry, and so putting her on the breast before she's making any hunger cues (see: https://kellymom.com/bf/normal/hunger-cues/ )
3. There's a bunch of advice at: https://kellymom.com/hot-topics/fussy-while-nursing/ that might help, but also if you have any kind of breastfeeding support group in your area it might be really helpful to go along to that (I know a lot of them shut down in the summer though, which is not great when you're having issues).
4. You could also try getting a local IBCLC (breastfeeding counselor) to come and give you advice (costs a lot, but definitely worth it from my experience, partially from a mental health/having someone on your side to try to figure out things).
5. Do not take it personally that your baby is upset on the breast - she is communicating to you something in the only way she knows how and you are being a great mum by listening to that and trying to figure out what's wrong.
6. if you're worried about bottles causing further confusion (particularly if she's not learning to suck properly so is less effective at getting milk out) then you can feed babies with a teaspoon and cup, or dipping fingers into milk in a cup for baby to suck on. Bottles are definitely not the only way to get milk in.
7. try a bunch of different positions and see if one of those helps things. Koala/cradle/cross cradle/rugby/laid back/lying down are all good but also baby's mouth needs to be wide open to get a good latch. If she's fussing/upset it might be that it's really hard for either of you to get a good latch. Stroking their upper lip can make them yawn at which point you can go for it. Advice at: https://kellymom.com/ages/newborn/bf-basics/latch-resources/

The best analogy for breastfeeding I found was that it's like you're learning a new musical instrument and neither you nor the instrument has any idea what you're doing.

Thank you. I think instinctively I know that we’ve reached the end of our journey after not even a week, which obviously doesn’t feel great but she hates the breast and cries whenever I position her anywhere near it and I feel as if I am fighting her. How anyone actually manages to do this successfully is beyond me, I’m absolutely exhausted and feel horrible.

Sounds tough. I suspect you need skilled help with latching and a feed being observed but in the meantime nipple shields might help. If you use them trigger the let down first - if they make a difference you may need to do a couple more feeds if they slow down milk transfer but they could transform that initial latch.