I'm reaching the point where that carton of formula looks like the saviour of the world.

[flossish]

I'm sleep deprived, feeling unwell knackered and p'd off. DD is nearly 5 months. Apart from respite of a week or so where she only woke (quickly) once after 12 midnight for a feed she is now back in the scenario where she wakes up for a feed, usually around 2/3 am and then refuses to go back to bloody sleep. DS missed nursery yesterday morning as after a grand total of two hours sleep all night (dp snoring too) I just couldn't function.

I posted recently about how she has dropped down the growth charts slightly and I was so sure of myself, now I'm thinking maybe just maybe the blooming nursery nurse was right and I do need to do something. She's upstairs now screaming. Dp is sturggling at work, two days this week now he has come home and nearly crashed the car where he has nodded off behind the wheel.

I know it might not work. It probably won't work. But I've had about 4 months of really disturbed nights since she was born (ironically she was a really good night time sleeper after we brought her home). I've been constantly ill for the past couple of weeks too, i'm sure lack of sleep isn't helping. Going to go now and shove a boob at her. Its been so long since she last fed (or slept!!) thats she's probably due another feed now.

I've got a 6 mth here and really feel your pain. It sounds like you know it wont really help at all, in fact you'll probably be up longer fiddling with bottles etc.

Sleep deprivation is hell I know, DS was up at 3.40 this morning, went back to sleep at 5 and then DD woke him back up at 6 so we're all up for the day now .

Don't worry about the growth charts thing breastfed babies do start to slip down them around now I think its the natural way for them to be, well DS certainly has anyway.

I think that sometimes just allowing yourself to say, 'you know what I'm going through a crappy time with this at the moment' really helps. It will come to an end, I'm just not sure when! Have you tried the 'no cry sleep soloution' book. I'm going to dig it out again today and try it.

Hi Flossish.

I remember that feeling well. Sleep deprivation is an absolute bugger isn't it? And made worse by your dp snoring too! Poor you!! I'm sorry to hear you've been ill as well and I'm sure lack of sleep doesn't help that.

Just a few questions.

Do you know how to feed lying down? I know at first it seems odd and a bit hippie, but really it can be an absolute lifesaver to take baby into bed with you for night-time feeds. You might be surprised how many people do - they just don't tell anyone! I did that in desperation when ds was about ten weeks old or so and never once looked back. You don't really wake up, or if you do, baby sucking sends you back to sleep almost immediately.

If you don't know how to feed lying down you could practice during the day.

Also - are you able to catch up on any sleep at all during your dd's daytime naps? At this stage where you're feeling desperate and painfully exhausted, the housework really will wait and I'm sure your dp will understand. Can you do this while your ds is at nursery?

Also if your dp snoring is making you miserable, and his lack of sleep is stopping him function, could he sleep in the other bedroom (if you have one for your ds I mean) just for a few days while you both catch up?

As for the growth charts, if your baby is healthy, meeting developmental milestones, producing plenty of wet & dirty nappies.... burn the bloody red book!!

Formula involves washing and sterilising bottles on top of everything you have to do. It really is a faff. I bf my first 3 but dd2 has cerebral palsy and couldn't nurse.
Are you thinking of getting dp to do a night time bottle? We did try that with dd1 (she was up several times a night till she was 4) but she just yelled and screamed for 2 hours and took just 1 oz. I'd be upstairs listening and not getting any sleep!
Don't worry about the growth charts. They are there to make you paranoid.

flossish my dd is 19 months now but i went through the same at 5 months, i almost gave up bf but kept going until she was 13 months in the end..... DD also woke up frequently at that age, and often took ages to resettle, but i kept going hoping that weaning at six months would make a difference and it did for us. She totally calmed down, stopped waking at 2 or 3 almost straight away, i know people say it won't make a difference and that breast or formula has more calories, but maybe a bit of solids filled her tummy for longer and took longer to digest. Whatever it was, that was the turning point for us. Maybe that gives you something to aim for - it was what kept me going at the five month stage.

Thank you all for your replies, sorry I've been so long. I'm feeling rotten, really sore throat so had an extra long lie in. I'm still undecided what to do, supposed to be going to stay with my mum for a few days tomorrow, and while I'm reluctant to spread my germs I want to be a bit looked after! Also wondering if Dp's snoring isn't only disturbing me, and that perhaps DD may sleep better there? Maybe something to try before I start anything else.

To answer q's - no I haven't tried the nocry sleep method. May look into that one!

Reverse, yes I do feed lying down. In a way I wonder if that doesn't help. I do tend to doze off very quickly, then wake up 30/40 minutes later with DD asleep on me and have to try and put her back in her bedside cot. Cue one awake and upset baby. I wonder if I actually got up to feed her whether the process would be over quicker, she would go back to cot as soon as she was finished, wel I wonder if it might work better.

NMC - of course you are right. I wouldn't be intending to give up BF totally yet, although of course once you start with the formula it is the beginning of the end. I would just be wanting to do it for the 10pm ish feed.

Country house - I hope you are right! I have in the back of my mind that I'm due back at work in 6 weeks time. I can't be having this when I'm back. there could be such consequences from my mistakes if I make them through tiredness and I'm going to be doing 14.5 hr days with about and hrs travelling too.

Hiya Flossish... I did just want to say that as a ff-er, formula is definitely not a miracle cure for non sleepy babies. My dd2 was waking regularly in the night at five months and doing the old early morning routine, bottles and all. So seeing as you've done so brill with the bf, you'll prob find it easier to carry on believe me!

DP could give a few bottles of expressed milk couldn't he? Specially when you are back at work too..

Aw PuppyMonkey, thank you you're very sweet. Logically i know that, it's just so pretty and shiney! Both of them are in bed early tonight and I plan to do much the same. Hopefully as long as I'm no worse I'll go to mums and see how things pan out down there.

how about cosleeping? it sounds like the initial feed lying down is doing the trick as you are both dozing off but then she doesn't want to sleep by herself in her bedside cot.
lots of people (or maybe it's just me lol) cosleep with their babies and have their dh sleep in another room for the first few months, well in our case that would be first 11 months, ahem, so you all get a better nights sleep. worth a try?

We kind of do. That is how it works best and indeed IMO how I got her into a better sleep routine before. DP has boycotted it though. Having said that she's been in the bed most of last night - I thought I'd just plead poorliness if he mentioned it - he didn't.

Why has your dp boycotted it? My dh was a bit like that too.

You could say to him, "I'll tell you what, I'll take baby out of the bed, if, every time she cries, you go and get her, bring her to me, I'll feed her and you settle her back down."

My dh changed his mind pdq.

pmsl RTP, always said your dh and mine were twins separated at birth! that sounds so like a conversation between me and dh

I know exactly what you mean about the lying down feeding thing being worse. I'm so knackered in the middle of the night i sometimes do it but feel worse the next day due to uncomfortable sleep. my sister did it right till her dd was ready for her own bedeach to her own!
we're trying cc and fingers crossed (with the exception of feeding my ds in bed all night again last night-bit of a blip!)it seems to be working. but he's 6 months so as on solids I know he can last the night with no feeds. Maybe wait till then?