Any advice on expressing - or one formula bottle per day? (bit long)

[BWMum]

My DD is 6 weeks old this weekend. I've bf her exclusively and she's doing fine. It's her silly (first time) mom who is going slightly off the rails...!

I feed DD at 10:30/11 and then she usually wakes twice in the night - around 2:30/3 and around 5:30/6. I know this is a lot less than many other babies wake, but I am getting more and more tired and find it's starting to get me down. We had hoped that I would be able to express enough for DH to give her the 10:30/11 feed and then I'd carry on during the night - but would have had some sleep. It is also the only time DH can spend with her during the week as he has to leave early for work and returns after she's gone to bed, although I know that has to be secondary to DD's own needs.
However I just can't express enough. I manage 1 - 1.5oz per breast maximum and the most I've ever got off both is 2.5oz (been expressing for about 3 weeks now). I express while feeding her - otherwise I don't even get 1oz! - and do it in the morning. I find if I express after lunch I get a lot less milk and my breasts don't feel full enough when I feed DD in the late afternoon/evening. I don't enjoy expressing - I'm using an electric pump and the motor is pretty noisy, plus the whole thing makes me feel a bit like a dairy cow.
Last night we gave her EBM I'd saved up over a few days so it was about 4 - 4.5oz. That got her through to 1:30am, so rather defeated the extra sleep purpose although DH did get to spend the time with her. However, we'd only be able to do this every second day at best given my expressing rate.

I know an alternative would be to give her a bottle of formula at 10:30/11. I'm a bit loath to do this because I have no real problems bfing but I'm starting to feel so knackered that I am tempted to give it a try.

Does anyone have any advice on how to increase the amount I express?
Or views on replacing a feed with a formula feed - is this likely to mess up her established bfing routine? Last thing I want to do is create a problem! (She has had a bottle before when we gave her EBM so seems to be happy to swap between nipple and bottle.)

Are you getting any sleep during the day?

I think the fundamental mistakes that new mums make is not to sleep during the afternoon or whenever the baby is sleeping.

Rather than concentrating your efforts on expressing to get sleep at night, I would concentrate on getting some sleep during the day when your baby is sleeping just to get you through this tiredness hump. Can anyone take her out for a walk for you?

I certainly would not advise introducing formula at this stage. You will be able to express milk when you take the pressure off yourself.

I expressed regularly to donate to a baby unit and also to give EBM when I was at work.

Do you leak milk at all when you feed? A quick way to get some milk is to put a sterilised breast shell in your bra which will collect the 'drip' milk with no effort on your part. When you change sides, move the breast shell over to the other side - you will still leak milk despite having fed on that breast. I never expressed whil actually feeding.

I would express between feeds, any time I felt a bit full. I would only aim to get a couple of ounces at a time and I would then add all the small collections together and freeze in batches of 4 oz. Some times I would only express an ounce. I personally hand expressed and did not use a pump because I found it quicker and there was no equipment to sterilise other than the shell and bottles.

It is amazing how quickly you can build up a stock of milk in the freezer.

Once you are ahead of the game with EBM stocked, you can then have DH giving EBM when he is there.

Make sure you massage your breasts before expressing to encourage letdown.

Remember, you will remain knackered even if you gave formula - being a mother is knackering.

I would also take her into bed at night for feeds and sleep at the same time. You are able to doze then you can pop her back in her cot if you don't want to co-sleep.

Mears - thank you so much for your reply and very sensible sounding advice. I will get some of the breast shells you mentioned, I know I do leak while feeding her so that might work well.

I haven't been sleeping during the day, feel that there is so much to do. I am unfortunately on my own other than DH as our family lives in South Africa and our friends are all at work - but I'll try to sleep when she does and hopefully feel better soon.

There is so much to learn - not least about letting go!!

Hello - just wanted to say a big hello cause I have been where you are over the last months! It is so frustrating when you can't express what you think is enough - I found the following has helped me:

really try and relax as much as you can. I found that I didn't necessarily have to sleep (I find it really hard to just drop off when the LO sleeps - impossible with a toddler charging around as well!)but put your feet up, watch some trashy tv and have a cup of tea/coffee and something treaty to eat. Or read a magazine, have a bubble bath - anything which feels indulgent. You certainly deserve it!

make sure you get some fresh air and eat protein every day; getting out of the house does wonders and protein really does make a difference to energy levels and milk production

my milk is at its best when I'm happy - which sounds obvious, but the evening's we;ve had friends over or I've had an hour out on my own, here is a noticeable difference in how much milk there is. That may be easier said than done but think of any way you can get a bit of happy you time and see if that helps.

also, just resign yourself to the idea that you only express small amounts, freeze them and it will all add up! Other top tip for expressing is to be either looking at your baby or at photos of them - it stimulates the let down.

my HV recommended fennel too - veg or tea; supposed to help production levels.

HOpe all of that helps - I know how hard it is and how tempting it is to get the formula out. Buy it in and then it's there if you need it (and weirdly I found that I got over the hurdles then!) Remember though that formula isn't necessarily the magic answer for getting more sleeping hours; but I suppose your DH could take over that feed each night.... I know it feels like there is no end but things do really come together at around 8 weeks and then again at 12; try and hang on cause you're doing so well. And if you go with the formula, that's fine too. Do what ever it takes to keep being a happy mummy and enjoy your little one.

I'll agree with what's been said about resting (even if you don't sleep) when you can in the day. And about little bits of milk adding up. I had similar problems when DD (now 8 months) was tiny, and we ended up doing one night per week where I'd do the late evening (~11) feed then go and sleep downstairs, leaving DH with formula to do the rest of the night feeds and then I took over feeding again about 6am. That gave me a good chunk of sleep, and found that one night a week didn't disturb my supply

nellieloula and milkjammy - just wanted to thank you for your posts, always helps to hear from people who have been there before you!
I gave myself the day "off" yesterday and Wed with no expressing. I tried again this morning and got 1oz (yes, that's one WHOLE ounce!) but am not going to feel bothered by that. I'll just put it in the bottle and top it up until I get a nice 4oz feed. Feeling a bit more relaxed about it all. I also took DD into the spare room bed to feed her the last two nights so I can doze while she feeds. I meant to put her back in the cot after her feed but unfortunately both nights I fell asleep and only woke up when she woke for her next feed. I'm quite nervous about cosleeping - sure I'm going to squash her or make her too hot - so I'm going to try to keep a bit more awake tonight. But I am a light sleeper so probably ok if she and I sleep together, I've always been more worried about DH who is a very large chap and sleeps like the dead so far more likely to squash DD .
But all round a much happier mum here today than I was earlier in the week - thank you!

pleasure - and really don't worry about co-sleeping. I find it is the only thing keeping me sane this time round (that and the glass of wine at 7.31 each night!) as long as it' s you next to the baby and you follow the normal guidelines for co-sleeping, it can make all the difference I think. so pleased you're feeling more positive.

bwm, glad you are feeling better. it's so knackering and feels relentless sometimes.

when you do get a break, make sure that when you wake up you express. you might find you get more off and start up a nice little cycle! i express everyday and made sure that when dd started sleeping longer through the night i would feed her from 1 breast and express the other. 8 months on and i am still expressing, it's no bother really and i have started expressing before bed too, and get 5-8oz a day, more if dh has done a feed for me.

bwmum - congratulations on your LO. Just wanted to add my twopenneth worth and agree with the others who say milk production is all about relaxing. my ds had a big weight drop when he was two weeks old and I've been expressing every day ever since to give him an evening top up. I get about 6oz a day to give him after his evening feed. I used a Medela symphony double expresser after each morning feed and it's brilliant, does both boobs at the same time and with very little effort I get my 6oz. The revelation for me was when we went to a friends wedding one weekend when ds was 6 weeks old. The next morning I produced about 10oz on top of my normal feeds. When i mentioned this to my bfc she suggested it's cos I was relaxed the night before having fun, and I'd had a couple of glasses of wine to help me relax too. Since then I've really come to understand how important your state of mind is. Try to relax and the milk will flow, it'll gradually build up. Dare I say it for fear of being shot down, but a glass of wine in the evening works a treat for me, the next morning the milk pours out of me!

There is so much advice out there, but it's all such a personal thing as to what works. Keep perservering, we had such a long faff with our DD but it does all work out in the end. If you can, I would say to try to stay off the formula as long as poss, as that may only reduce your own milk supply further.

I was recommended fennel tea by the midwife as it is supposed to increase milk production. I also used to express in the morning when my boobs felt fuller. But rest and relaxation are the key (easy to say, not easy to do).

Whatever you decide you have to do, you will always find support on mumsnet.

Just remembered, I was advised by a bfc to take fenugreek capsules to help boost milk supply. It's worth a try...

Glad to hear you are feeling better