Day 3 and really struggling :( please help!

[Emalouise25111]

Hi everyone,

I gave birth to my baby boy on Wednesday morning and have been in a little blissful bubble since. I am, however, really struggling with feeding and was hoping for some advice!

Baby seemed to latch okayish after he was born and I managed to feed a few times in the hospital. It’s a bit of a blur: I was admitted on Monday morning for induction and was in labour all Tuesday night. I went this whole time without a wink of sleep so was already very sleep deprived by the time he was born.

The issues started on night one in the hospital. I felt very anxious when my husband had to leave and was facing my first night with my new baby. It didn’t help that we weren’t allowed to pull the curtains on the ward and I was exposed to all the other women who were happily feeding their peaceful babies. I must have missed my son’s cues in the night because before I knew it he was screaming, bright red in the face and nothing would calm him. The midwife got some of my previously expressed colostrum and gave him that which calmed him a little but still no successful latch which just kept stressing us both out. Hours passed at which point it was agreed that we would give him some formula which settled him.

The night was horrendous and by morning I just desperately wanted to get out of the hospital. I couldn’t sleep there and I thought there was no way I was going to be able to establish successful feeding while I was there. I spoke to the midwife at about 6am and her words were ‘you’re not leaving here until we have a successful latch’. I got really upset and explained that I couldn’t do another night on my own without my husband and/or mum to help. I explained that I hadn’t slept since he was born and wasn’t coping well with the exhaustion. I asked whether I could supplement with formula just for the time being and she looked at me as though I’d suggested something awful and told me I could as long as I’d ‘researched the consequences’.

Later that morning a lovely midwife came round and helped me to successfully latch a couple of times. It took an awful long time (DS doesn’t open his mouth very wide and I have quite big boobs which is apparently causing much of the issues) and I don’t think he got much but he was definitely swallowing.

I was finally discharged at around 4pm and we went home. At this point I was almost delirious with exhaustion and my husband and mum sent me to bed. The decision was made to give DS some newborn formula to keep him going because I needed a good sleep. My husband has been kicking himself since for making this choice because he thinks it’s this that’s really knocked the breastfeeding but I don’t really see what choice we had at the time.

That first night back home was hard work, I tried and tried to breastfeed to no avail. Every time I tried to latch DS he couldn’t get enough breast in and just screamed and screamed. We were up every hour and ended up feeding him formula exclusively throughout the night.

The next day (yesterday) I struggled similarly. I managed to get him latched on a couple of times but I’m fairly certain he wasn’t swallowing and was just sucking for comfort.

I had a visit yesterday afternoon from a midwife who was very kind but did make it clear that we had caused the breastfeeding issues by giving formula. We tried together and after an hour of trying different things DS was successfully feeding. The midwife told me to spend the weekend doing skin to skin and just practice practice practice.

This brings me to tonight. We put DS down at 9pm and he woke at 11pm (a miracle that we got two hours!) and he began to make some feeding cues. Yet again, I just couldn’t get him to latch. I sat in a rocking chair for over an hour and he couldn’t get enough breast in his mouth. The screaming got worse and worse and I ended up giving in and giving him 30ml of formula. I am kicking myself for giving up yet again. I just couldn’t sit there for hours on end listening to my very hungry baby crying out for food.

I just don’t know what to do at this point. I feel so much judgement coming at me from the midwives (the health visitor hasn’t been yet), I’m being referred to the infant feeding for support which I’m grateful for but feel I’m just going to come away feeling like a failure and inadequate as a mother.

As far as I can see I have a few options:

a) persist with exclusive bf, wean DS off the formula and hope for the best (but I don’t want him to starve?!)
b) express breast milk which could be an option once my milk comes in (hopefully tomorrow)
c) give up on breastfeeding and move over to formula entirely

I feel I need to make a decision because at the moment it’s a bit of formula here and there, some breast here and there but we don’t know how much and because of this I have no clue if DS is getting enough. He is generally filling nappies regularly though.

Is all of this normal? Has anyone experienced it before? If so what did you do?

I’d be so appreciative of any advice and sorry for the long post!

Thanks
Emma

xxx

Hi Emma - first of all congratulations! You are doing amazingly well, not least to write this cohesively by the sounds of things.

I had a similar start to you with DS. I was exclusively breastfeeding, or so I thought, til my baby was weighed at day 3 and he had lost an alarming amount of weight. We had to go to A&E to get him checked out but thankfully all was ok. The midwife who had referred me to hospital did however alarm me so much I ended up giving formula. Then in my exhausted state he got formula overnight, then a few weeks of what you accurately described as here and there with formula and breastfeeding, driving me mad as I had no idea what he was getting, he seemed hungry all the time and I was so conscious of getting his weight back up as well as basically unable to do anything or go anywhere. So I decided he was only getting formula and expressed milk so I’d know amounts.

This has worked out ok for us, he’s now almost 3 months and doing a lot better. My breast milk supply seems to diminish by the day so I don’t know how much longer we will continue though. I did read somewhere that as little as 50ml breast milk per day is really beneficial for baby so that’s my daily target!

Anyway hope this helps in some way and I wish you all the best whatever you decide with feeding. Just remember ‘fed is best’ and ignore any judgemental comments from others (easier said than done I know!)

I have no experience a breastfeeding at all, so unfortunately I have no words of wisdom, but I am so sorry that you've had this experience from midwives!
Fed is best, you gave your baby formula because he is hungry and struggling to feed, that makes you and your husband good parents. Don't forget that, the judgment and treatment that you have received and still are recieving is awful and I really hope things improve.

Hi OP. Didn't want to read and run.

I had my little boy on Monday morning so I'm not far off from you! Congratulations by the way ☺️

My LO appeared to latch on fine initially but as time passed in the hospital, I noticed that his latch seemed quite shallow. I asked a midwife for some support and they were great - since being home we have really practiced getting the latch right. I only really felt more confident with it when my milk came in (just yesterday). But I called up our local infant feeding team today for some extra advice and reassurance and we had a video call. Is there anything like this available in your area?

All I would say though is, fed is best. If you really have your heart set on breastfeeding then keep practicing! Otherwise, please don't beat yourself up. These early stages are hard enough ❤️

up doing the night feed and saw your post - didn’t want to run and read .

with my first DD I wanted to breast feed, first day was fine then my milk stopped whilst in hospital. Every midwife I feel in the country came and had a fondle , positioned etc and all gave there own opinion on my big boobs, flat nipples, bad posture, bad position, baby laid wrong, baby to hungry , baby to tired etc etc etc so lots of reasons lol which made me completly inadequate and deflated. Fast foward hours of screaming and unsettled baby and like you, had a three day labour and no sleep. She was starving so requested a bottle, again got the lecture of it’s not good breast is best bla bla but after been told I’m the problem I was a mess and just wanted her to sleep and be full. Eventually was given a bottle after been hooked up to the pump machine. She had the formula and slept solid for 6 hours. I slept , the entire ward slept the world didn’t seem so shit.

if you want to persue bf then go for it, if not then that’s ok to. Your baby needs feeding and sometimes , it’s not like the movies, or like the mums group down the road who all seem to have perfected BF in the local cafe after the school run every morning. It’s hard work, hours and days even weeks of sleepless nights etc while you and baby get into a routine and flow. You’re a team and can take time to be on the same page. However, it shouldn’t be at the sake of your own mental health and happiness. You’re just as important as your newborn. You can not function on no sleep. I would just suggest deciding which route to go down and don’t put pressure on yourself. We get enough comments and criticism being a new mum , take care of you as well xx

Also , I had a baby on Tuesday and decided not to BF and said this to the midwives from the get go . They didn’t even question it this time round. My first baby they made me feel terrible for even thinking about formula , this time they gave me info etc about formula feeding but positives. The guidance etc seems to change constantly.

and if it’s any consolation, even my newborn has kept me up for three nights since she was born cause she just likes to play with the bottle teat when feeding lol so takes even longer to feed and then she doesn’t settle back of for hours.

as PP said , fed is best xx

Also up doing the night feed! Aww this sounds so hard.

I think if you want to formula feed then you've given breastfeeding a really good try there. It's so hard in those early days and sounds like you're having a particularly tough start.

If you are really keen to breastfeed, I know that our local children's centre has breastfeeding support groups. Speak to your health visitor and she will be able to advise if any other local groups. I know with my first she needed feeding really regularly in the early days, like every 30/40 mins at times, so I'd maybe during the day keep offfering regularly. My first wouldn't latch when she was upset so I just offered whether she was showing cues or not.

Ultimately though you just have to do what's best for your family!

Oh OP I had a similar experience with my DS, wanted to breastfeed, difficulty latching, midwives wouldn’t let me go home, didn’t sleep for 5 days. First night home with him was hell, he screamed all night couldn’t get him to latch, my milk hadn’t come in yet, nappies were bone dry, I was distraught and in tears feeling like I was a failure and we had no bottles or formula in the house because I had naively assumed breastfeeding would come easily to me and we wouldn’t need a backup.

Lovely midwife came to the house the next morning, told her what was going on and she said it was ok to give him formula for now til my milk came in to get him fed and re-hydrated and that giving formula for a few days didn’t have to mean breastfeeding was off the table. Promptly sent DP to Tesco to get some formula and bottles. When she weighed DS he had lost more than 10% of his birth weight so she sent us back up to the hospital but I can’t explain the relief I felt to be in a way given the midwife’s permission to use formula (which I know sounds silly).
We can put so much pressure on ourselves to breastfeed, most people in my circle have done it and made it look so easy, so I felt like I had failed.

Once my milk came in at first I made sure to pump every few hours and DS took my breast milk by bottle. I also am large boobed with small/ flattish nipples so he’s never been able to latch properly, plus he also has tongue tie which we are waiting for an appointment to get it released.
I now use nipple shields to give him a larger surface area to latch on to which helps. And I am still expressing breast milk to feed him by bottle too which is working well for us.
My way might seem more complicated to others but it works for me and my baby. In a way I get the best of both worlds. He’s getting breast milk, but also feeding isn’t all on me, DP and other family can bottle feed him expressed milk if I’m otherwise occupied, and I can also get a better idea of how much milk he’s taking each day. But I get that expressing milk is time consuming and doesn’t work for everyone.

It’s only day 3, give yourself time to work out what will best suit you and your baby. It is so hard in those early days when you’re so exhausted and recovering from
birth and trying to take care of this tiny person and hormones are all over the place, but it does get better I promise! My DS is almost 12 weeks now and things are so much better. Hang in there OP.

First, congratulations on your baby! I hear you re the sleep deprivation, it is so, so difficult to deal with.

it sounds like you are keen to breastfeed but you aren’t getting anywhere near the level of support you need. I appreciate you are too tired and sore to make a fuss - I wonder if you could ask your husband to advocate a bit more on your behalf? - to ring the midwife desk in the morning and really insist to the midwives that things are not ok, you need specialist help NOW to make sure your breastfeeding journey can get going on the right track.

Breastfeeding is really tricky at first (I grew up on a farm, even cows and sheep often find it very difficult with their first offspring and need lots of hands-on assistance from the farmer - not a lot of people know that) and your milk hasn’t even come in yet, so the baby would only be getting a few ml of colostrum from feeds each time. So don’t worry, you can do this!

Also, some babies are more difficult to feed than others (I’ve got 3 children, and was really surprised by the differences feeding each one) As your baby grows day by day and his mouth is able to open wider, it will get easier. (But it will also go through very difficult stages, it’s worth being mentally prepared for that…)

I suggest spending the whole weekend in bed, with your lovely baby snuggled on your chest, skin to skin. It will help all the right hormones to start working. If you let your baby root around for your breast whenever he stirs, you and he will start to get the hang of feeding cues - he needs to learn how to feed just as much as you do, it’s a two-way process. He might need to suckle every hour, every half-hour ; don’t worry about how much he may or may not be drinking each time, the midwife is there to keep tabs on his overall milk intake these first few days.

Are you able to ask family to make sure you are kept well supplied with food and drink to your bedside, and get others to do nappies, and everything else that may need doing? - your sole job for now needs to be to rest, let your body start to heal, and give it time to make milk!

you can do this!

Another up doing the night feed and wanted to chime in to say you’re doing great and absolutely shouldn’t be beating yourself up over your feeding choices. I’m so sorry you’ve been failed by the midwives you’ve seen so far.

DD is a month old now and has been combi fed since day 2 as I was really ill after giving birth and just didn’t have enough milk to feed her exclusively with, and like you was utterly exhausted so appreciated DH being able to take on some of the night feeds.

My aim is always to offer boob first and then top up with formula when needed, but sometimes we’ve gone straight to offering formula, especially if we’d missed feeding cues and she was unsettled as I found it much harder to get a decent latch when she was frantic.

I’ve personally only found positives from combi feeding. DD surpassed her birth weight within a week and has continued to go from strength to strength, and I’ve found having options really took the pressure off and enabled me to recover and find my rhythm without panicking that DD wasn’t getting fed enough. I honestly think if I’d have been trying to force myself to ebf I’d have quit within a week. The only thing I did find was I did have to express every couple of hours at the start to help establish and maintain my milk supply which was a bit of a chore when tired, but now I tend to just pump a couple of times a day.

These early days are so tough, especially after induction as I found you’re already going into motherhood with your cup half empty. At this stage it’s all about surviving and just getting through it, so please cut yourself some slack. It absolutely does get easier, but for now just focus on recovering and resting where you can and if you need to supplement some feeds with formula so be it, I promise you won’t ruin anything by doing so x

Congratulations on your baby! I really feel for you because I went through something really similar with my DS.

I have no idea if this tip is particularly conventional- and I'm aware it sounds bizarre- but it's what my midwife told me and it worked (same problem, big boobs and baby with small mouth.) She told me to make my breast a more convenient shape for him to latch on by squeezing it horizontally to make it into a sort of burger shape (her description, but I can't think of a better one.) Then touch the nipple against baby's nose, wait for them to do the big latchy mouth open thing and quickly put the boob in with it still 'burgered'.

I also agree with PP's suggestion of taking your baby to bed with you for a couple of days, spending it skin to skin and trying to feed as much as you can. I can remember thinking that my DS just didn't seem to be very good at latching but a couple of days of skin to skin did seem to work.

It's really hard. I don't think I've ever felt anything quite like the frustration of trying to learn to breastfeed but the stress won't be helping. Don't worry about the formula at all. The most important thing is that your baby is fed and that you're both happy and healthy.

You need to get a tongue tie assessment from infant feeding. Might not be but you do need to be c assessed.

Giving formula won’t have really affected anything (re breastfeeding) at this stage. Your milk hasn’t come in so it’s had zero impact on supply, milk comes in even if you don’t breastfeed. There’s no real weaning off to do at the moment, just don’t give any more once your milk comes in.

if you do think your boob/nipple shape is a problem (which is unlikely) get a bottle which most closely resembles your breast so he doesn’t need to learn two ways of feeding.

and you need sleep to make milk, don’t feel guilty about getting the rest you need.

Oh and as PP said, maybe try offering him your breast before he starts showing hunger cues. I found in the early days that it's really stressful feeding a hungry newborn because they're getting more and more upset and that makes you feel more and more anxious and it just ends up not working and becoming a frustrating experience. I found he was usually up for a feed whenever I offered 😆 and their mouths do grow quite quickly and then it's easier.

The other thing I'd also add is that I always thought my DS was just comfort sucking- I never felt a let-down and it didn't really feel like anything was happening until he was quite a bit older. The only reason I knew he was actually getting anything was because he was having normal nappies.

Another mum up for the night feed here. My baby is five months now and fully breastfed but our first days were a lot like yours - so if you want to breastfeed you absolutely haven’t ruined it with a bit of formula while you get yourself sorted, no matter what a grumpy midwife might say. Three days is such a small portion of little ones life - and it’s really common to take some time to learn to bf for both of you.

Here are a few things that helped me, in case any of them work for you :

• I knew bf would take a lot of time but couldn’t really imagine just how many hours my newborn would spend on/near/looking for/ just fallen off the breast. It’s totally normal to feed for most of the hours in the day even though it feels bonkers (and miserable some days) so don’t stress about how long it’s taking for now.
• Best advice I got on latching was that to start with you really have to shove it in. I have tiny nipples and for a few weeks until baby and I got used to each other I had to have my partner hold her hands out of her mouth (tiny idiot) so I could hold the back of her neck with one hand and make a boob sandwich with my other and shove it in.
• I also couldn’t get on with the laid back breastfeeding positions, tried for ages before I figured I need to be very upright. Just keep trying until you find what works for you and don’t drive yourself mad with what it ought to look like.
• When you feel up to it, see if there’s a local bf group session, I went to about three a week and it was a massive help psychologically. Def not the blissed out room of people feeding perfectly, just lots of tired mums doing their absolute best.

Hope some of the advice on this thread helps. And congratulations!

I'm sorry you've had such terrible support! I had such problems with DS's latch to start with and moved to a mix of formula and expressed milk when he lost weight at day 3. I kept trying a bit with breastfeeding though and for those first few months nipple shields made it possible until DS was bigger and stronger and all of a sudden feeding just clicked and the number of bottles decreased.

You've not broken your baby by giving him formula so early, you've done the best thing for him. I've gone from bottle fed + short, frustrating attempts at breastfeeding to a 6 month old who pushes away the one bottle he's given a day half of the time and wriggles to be breastfed instead. I had amazing support from my health visiting team which helped me keep going so definitely see what they can offer - way more helpful than the midwives for me and it was reassuring to talk to other mums experiencing the same.

It doesn't have to be all one or the other, many babies are very happy combi fed. So you don't need to feel the pressure to choose all one option right now, you can carry on with a mix until things settle down and you work out what's right for you and baby. No one tells you how many people find feeding genuinely tough, you're not alone but you'll get there!

The lack of support for breastfeeding is awful. I too had a lot of difficulties and a lot of contradictory or unhelpful advice from midwives. Sorry that was also your experience so far.

My baby wouldn't latch at all when she was born. We did formula and expressing in hospital (I was in for a week as she had jaundice) and then when I got home, a lovely community midwife suggested nipple shields. They made such a difference! They can be a bit of a faff at first but I couldn't have fed without them. All of a sudden, around 5 months, my baby just pulled them off and latched herself! She's now 7 months and I'm feeding her right now with no issues. I never would have believed that in the beginning but it does become so much easier and I'm now glad I kept on going.

All that said however, take care of your mental health too. I became a bit obsessive about establishing breastfeeding. There's nothing wrong with combi or formula feeding if that's what you need or would prefer to do. If you do persevere with breastfeeding, I recommend seeing an ibclc lactation consultant or finding a breastfeeding support group near you. Kathryn Stagg and lmj feeding support on Instagram are also worth a follow for tips and general reassurance on normal newborn feeding. Plus make sure you have lots of snacks, drinks and something to watch during cluster feeding when establishing supply. It's not easy but once you crack it, it can be great. Best of luck to you, whatever you decide.

Has baby been checked for tongue tie? Can make latching really difficult. Needs to be checked by proper tongue tie practitioner/ lactation consultant, not midwife as they tend not to be trained in looking for posterior tongue tie in my experience.

Have a look at the tongue tie symptoms and see if any of it resonates for you. If so, if you can afford it, I'd highly recommend going private as you'll be seen much quicker and if s vit needs to be done, it's best to do it earlier. Good luck

A couple of things to try:

Nipple shields (can be fab for sorting a latch with tricky boobs)

Walking with baby whilst trying to get a latch- the walking can settle them a bit, letting them latch better

Checking for tongue tie as others have said

Congratulations on your new baby and so sorry to hear you are having a challenging time time with feeding. I had very similar issues and managed to establish a latch after a few days but it was so so hard at first and I have massive sympathies. Sorry you haven’t had much good support. Things which helped me

• I paid for a lactation consultant to visit (I was so exhausted and desperate but it really really helped however appreciate its expensive (around £70) but if you can afford it, I would recommend
• as pp suggested, check for tongue tie (feeding improved massively for us once this has been fixed)
• I had issues with latching and managed to express and give this to baby (topped up with formula) for a short while, until feeding and latching was established, you can try cup feeding if you’re worried about nipple confusion but bottles were ok for us during this time
• try different positions, for me with a very small baby, the side lying down position was the best to help latch, I actually fed like this for a month as it was the only position I could manage until baby was a bit bigger and could latch better
• skin to skin- this has really helped me too

breastfeeding is one of the hardest and most exhausting things I have done, and I agree with the pp- don’t beat yourself up about giving formula at all, it sounds like you’ve been doing a great job and sorry you haven’t had good support from the healthcare professionals. Good luck and take care

Definitely find an IBCLC to check for tongue tie asap - sounds like they’ve already got a bottle preference which can be hard to overcome. Look up pace feeding for the bottles.
shields are worth a try too - and I would start pumping, it’s key to supply to get them to feed as much as possible in the early days, if they aren’t feeding then your “milk coming in” will be delayed. Hand expressing for now should help too.
Midwives often have very little breastfeeding knowledge so I would personally go straight to the IBCLC privately, that or ask for the infant feeding team at the hospital.

Oh and loads of skin to skin and offer boob constantly, if they stir then offer - sleepy feeding is often the best way, don’t let them get past the rooting stage. Cuddle on the sofa all day, in bed at night, get someone to bring you food and drink - nothing but cuddles and boob!

Thank you so so much for all the replies to my post - they had me in tears for realising I’m not on my own out here!

@Tiswhattis so sorry to hear about your experience which sounds so scary and glad to hear your LO is doing well and thriving now! I think what you decided seems really sensible. I’m going to start trying to express tomorrow and we will see how we go with that. You’re absolutely right - fed is best!

@Raroge14 honestly I had heard about all the judgement surrounding feeding but I had no idea how rife it actually was! Such hard things to hear when you’re a new mum operating on a few hours sleep and have no idea what you’re doing!

@FebMama congratulations on your little one! Thanks for your advice - I’m definitely going to call the infant feeding line today for some support. I’m absolutely still keen for this to work if I can so going to spend the day trying and seeing what happens. I think if I'm persistent enough I can make it work … it’s just the nights in particular where latching seems all the more impossible and the thought of sitting up for hours on end with a distressed baby is awful!

@Jusmakingit your fondling comment made me laugh! I felt exactly the same in the hospital and yesterday when the midwife came round … sat there with a stranger faffing around with my boobs wondering what on earth life had come to! 😂 This is the balance I need to find: we used formula through the night and both myself and husband slept well and were only up a couple of times as we worked in shifts. Now that I’m feeling rested I feel I can face the day ahead and focus on trying to breastfeed. If I’d actually tried more to breastfeed over night I’d have had zero sleep and be unable to try today … such a vicious cycle! Congrats on your LO!

@Fipfop thanks for your advice re the breastfeeding cafes! I think I might try and find one to go to next week (if I can pluck up the courage for our first trip out together - haven’t left the house yet!)

@Beanniebaby22 I relate so much to your experience! Luckily our midwife had recommended that we buy some newborn formula just in case and just like you I naively assumed it would stay sealed in the box! I think I’m going to try your method of expressing hopefully starting today and giving breast milk to DS via bottle. Tbh although I imagine this is time consuming I do see many benefits in my husband being able to feed as well and being able to track how much DS is taking. Thanks for your advice and glad that things are going better for you now 😊

@dontbenastyhaveapasty really appreciate your advice and I’m going to give it a go this weekend - lots of skin on skin and just see how we go 😊 fingers crossed we can get there and I’m fairly certain my milk is coming in today as my boobs have doubled in size and feeling very sore 😂 I’m hoping that this will give us both a big boost as we learn how to do this!

Congrats! Lots of good advice already given!

I would search for an International Board Certified Lactation Consultant. We had a midwife and 3 HV missing a (complete) tongue tie... an IBCLC comes to your home, nice in these early days! A good one will come during the weekend as well.
I got the advice to look at the websites and find one that resonated with us and also mentioned their expertise with our kind of problem, as ICBLC may also have specialisations. Availability is also important...

When my milk came in, a little later than expected, I was too engorged and DD couldn't drink comfortably. I used a Hakaa pump to take the pressure off. If you don't have one you can use a normal breast pump. It made my breasts emptier, so easier to latch and also avoided an overpowering let down. This was needed in our case, not saying it will be in yours.

Best of luck (and enjoy!)

@Emalouise25111 I found this guide to be so useful - particularly the “mother’s view” photos and practical advice from page 11 onward - just thought I’d pass it on:

realbabymilk.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/RBM-Cornwall-Essential-Guide-2017-web.pdf

There’s no getting around that breastfeeding is usually very tough going for the first weeks. But, it really massively pays off in the following months and years! You can do this ☺️