Calling HUNKERMUNKER or TIKTOK

[frostymorning]

I need some advice please as I'm expecting dc3 in the spring. I tried unsuccessfully to bf dc1 and dc2 and despite huge amounts of help from mw and bfc who agreed that they were latched and seemed to be feeding well. By way of a bit of background dc1 was in SCBU for 2 weeks after birth because of an infection. She was tube fed during that time and used a dummy (which I hasten to add I agreed to because she was screaming so much). DC2's birth and pn period was much more straight forward but the bf went the same way in both cases. Babies never sucked much and were still losing weight at 3 weeks of age with few wet nappies and eventually no dirty ones. Both were very unsettled. In the end I could see that they were dehydrated and hungry and so gave formula. When I did they were much more settled (I think that they'd been very hungry) and put on weight at a good rate.

During the periods when I was trying to bf I never experienced my breasts filling and draining nor any 'let down' and I'm wondering if I've got a problem with delayed 'let down'. Are you able to offer any advice for the next dc?

i don't know if i'm in much of a postion to offer advice. i tried to bf unsucessfully with my son. i lasted only 3 weeks and then he was going yellow and i was exhausted so i did bottle and breast and after 5 weeks moved onto bottle only.
But saying that i'm glad i tried and hope to try again if i have another baby.
But looking at my sister the same thing happend with her first baby and then with her second it just seemed to work.
If i were you i would try and regularly spend some time with a breast feeding mum. breast health vistors etc are all very well but talking to and spending time with someone who is actually doing it for real i would imagine could really help.

Hi fm. Am sure that TT and hunker will help further, but just wanted to let you know that there are plenty of us who have never felt the let down, but still fed successfully, so that isn't necessarily a problem on its own.

Can you give a bit more info about how often you were putting them to the breast, and whether they appeared to come off satisfied?

Thank you kiteflyer, I spend a lot of time with bf women and my sister who is also bf. They just seem to be able to bf without problem even if it does take a few weeks to really get going. I actually find it quite upsetting being around women who are bf and starting this thread has brought it all back. I'm just so diappointed that I couldn't do it. It's like my boobs just don't work.

CSWS, thank you. I put baby to breast 2-3 hourly but they never appeared satisfied. When I woke in the middle of the night, though, I would by lying in a puddle of milk even with breast pads. Neither baby ever seemed satisfied after a feed and the first time either of them stopped grizzling was after I gave the first bottle of formula when I just saw a tremendous difference which is one of the reasons that I feel it was the right thing to do in that situation even though it was not my first choice.

Also, with dc1, when I realised that I was going to have to top up with formula I hired an electric expresser and expressed 3 hourly (even overnight) to try to increase production and give dc1 the breastmilk even if she had it from a bottle. However, at my maximum I would only be able to express about 1 oz AT A GO.

Tiktok's better at this than me (she's trained, I'm not - I'm just gobby!) - but I would echo what CSWS has said about it not necessarily being an issue that you didn't feel a letdown - many women don't, some do until their body's more used to bf and then they don't feel it any more.

When you say that your babies never sucked much, that could well be the issue - were they sleepy babies? How often were they feeding? Did you express when DD1 was in SCBU or was she able to be bfed directly?

I'm so sorry you feel so sad about your experience. You're not unusual feeling like this - it's a very understandable response. Hopefully you'll have a better experience with DC3 - and hopefully Tiktok will see this soon as well

I did express whilst dc1 was in SCBU and then put her to the breast when she was getting better. Never expressed very successfully though. They weren't particularly sleepy babies they just seemed to suck very very gently. I felt the milk come in a bit on day 3 -4 but nothing mega. I never felt my breasts drain during a feed or felt uncomfortable like I needed to feed.

Thank you for responding by the way. I've been wanting to ask about this for ages but needed to wait until I had time to explain it all.

frosty, I can't really tell what's been happening with you - I'd be wondering if you managed to start expressing from the very start of your dc1's stay in scbu and what happened in the early days with dc2. Did you keep dc2 with you, skin to skin, day and night - that would help a lot. I don't understand about the babies 'not sucking much' - I'd want to know why this was happening, and when it started.

I don't think your issue was with delayed let down. If the underlying dificulties with breastmilk removal aren't resolved, this is what causes a lack of production - get the production sorted, and things happen! Delayed let down can happen as an occasional, temporary thing, but I don't know of any underlying condition that causes it to be ever-present.

Some women have a hard time getting bf going, and they need all the help they can get at first. I don't think your babies can have been feeding well - if they were, they would have thrived.

This time round, it will help to have your baby with you all the time, on you. If there's a problem, start expressing straight away. Find someone who is truly expert at assessing positioning and attachment to check the baby is removing the milk ok, and watch for normal poo'ing from the start, too, as another check.

Hope this helps.

good luck frostymorning, i hope everything goes well for you.
were you ever told with your other lo's that you had low milk supply? just wondering as i am currently doubting mine!
tiktok this may be a silly question, but can every woman produce milk? i know there are issues if you've had surgery etc, but other than that?

Tiktok, with dc1 I had her with me for the first 24 hours before she was taken off to SCBU at which point I started expressing but never produced much. When I say that neither of them sucked much I mean that it was very very light/gentle.

When dc1 was well enough to start bf I would put her to the breast and the mw would say she was latched on well but she would quickly become hysterical and seemed almost to fight it. With dc2 she just sucked gently but gradually became thinner and stopped having dirty nappies and fewer wet ones. In both cases the first time they appeared satisfied was after I gave them a formula feed.

DD2 had problems breastfeeding initially. An NCT counseller watched her and said she was an ineffective sucker. Basically she gave 4 little sucks to every gulp. As she was not having wet nappies I had to top-up with formula. Hvs and midwives gave me awful advice but Tiktok and others gave me lots of useful advice on here.

I breastfed, then gave a bottle, then expressed with a hospital pump. I took it a day at a time but by 6 weeks her suck had strengthened and we got down from 4 oz of formula to 1oz. Unfortunately I had to go to hospital so couldn't breastfeed for 2 weeks and so we had to stick with mixed feeding as my supply never recovered. I have a toddler so had to balance the 2 kids' needs and decided I couldn't spend hours expressing. We did continue to breastfeed til 4.5 months which early on had looked impossible. I really believe that we would have got to exclusive breastfeeding if we hadn't had to take a break.

Sorry to be so long-winded but basically think I am trying to say, take it a day at a time and it does get easier as they get bigger and stronger. I did need to express though at the start to maintain my supply. Good luck and keep Mning cos it really helps!

Your dc sounds a lot like mine in that they only sucked weakly. I'm going to go into this positively and with an expectation that bf alone will be sufficient but if it's not then I might try what you did.

frosty, key to successful expressing is to do it often enough - at least 8 times in 24 hours inc at least once at night.

Caz, everyone makes some milk. A few women have genuine physiological problems that make building up a good supply very difficult. Mostly, 'not enough milk' can be avoided with good information and fixing probs before they get serious, but not always.