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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Can baby reach hindmilk in 5 minutes?

18 replies

Bigdeluxe1 · 24/07/2022 17:08

I’m concerned that my 5 week old son is drinking more foremilk than hindmilk as he feeds for 5-10 minutes only. Can he reach the hindmilk in such a short amount of time? I’ve tried keeping him on the breast longer but he’s not interested. He pees and poos regularly but his poos have been watery recently, is that a sign he’s drinking more foremilk than hindmilk?

I’d love to go longer between feeds (currently at 1-1.5hr between feeds) so I’m thinking of hand expressing some of the watery milk
for 1-2 minutes before he latches, would that help baby reach creamier milk quicker? Would it cause an increase in milk supply? I don’t want that

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 24/07/2022 17:12

Don't worry, the whole foremilk/hindmilk thing is old info, it's outdated. You don't need to worry about it. Just feed on demand at this age. It is quite normal for it to be short gaps between feeds, this is because you're establishing demand (another reason not to mess around with expressing etc). It will get easier and you'll find the gaps lengthen naturally somewhere around 6-8 weeks. Hang in there!

Fritilleries · 24/07/2022 17:17

Hindmilk is a myth. It's all fatty and essential. Mine fed for maybe 5 mins and then stopped. Fed frequently, every hour or so. Clusterfeeding is also a thing whereby they'll nurse on and off for a few hours.

As long as nappies are regularly wet etc then all is well.

bogoblin · 24/07/2022 17:18

Just to add to the advice above, babies are more efficient feeders than you might think!

Wouldloveanother · 24/07/2022 17:18

Does he drain the breast? Is the boob firm/hard before and soft afterwards? DD only took 5-10 minutes to feed but was very efficient and gained weight really well.

Bigdeluxe1 · 24/07/2022 17:19

BertieBotts · 24/07/2022 17:12

Don't worry, the whole foremilk/hindmilk thing is old info, it's outdated. You don't need to worry about it. Just feed on demand at this age. It is quite normal for it to be short gaps between feeds, this is because you're establishing demand (another reason not to mess around with expressing etc). It will get easier and you'll find the gaps lengthen naturally somewhere around 6-8 weeks. Hang in there!

Really? It’s crazy because it’s all I’ve been reading on Google and it got me in such a panic 😓 Thank you for replying! Another Q, how long would you recommend keeping baby on one breast? I never know when to switch

OP posts:
TamSamLam · 24/07/2022 17:26

5-10 minutes is ideal if that's all baby wants/needs. In this weather he needs the watery milk anyway, and it might ease off when the weather cools.
Ignore the fore/hind milk stuff, if you were to express it would likely be apparent that both come out at the same time.

Watery poo is more likely to do with your diet.

Teaandcrumpets95 · 24/07/2022 17:29

My 13 week old rarely feeds more than 10 minutes, we do a boob per feed until he's had enough, never had any issues and he's gained weight very well.

I'd follow your baby's lead and try not to worry.

Sexdoesmatter · 24/07/2022 17:29

I worried about this. I read about some babies feeding for up to an hour - my baby never did this. Nor did i know when a breast had been drained of milk. Baby always put on weight and was healthy, so was okay, but i found my reality compared to the advice given quite bewildering!

Teaandcrumpets95 · 24/07/2022 17:30

Oh and he feeds 1.5-2 hrs in the day still but sleeps very well at night, I only get woken up for 1 feed so I'll take it 😅

Hugasauras · 24/07/2022 17:41

My lactation consultant said last week that advice has changed in recent times in that it's now all about volume of milk consumed, not foremilk/hindmilk or make-up of milk. So as long as he's getting enough, which it sounds like he is, all is good!

Fritilleries · 24/07/2022 17:41

You'll know when to switch cos your boobs soften. Mine were huge in the mornings and after maybe 10-15mins they would be soft again. Babies are incredibly efficient. Watery poo is naff all to do with your diet. They're babies. Their poo is well, poo.

BertieBotts · 24/07/2022 19:42

Unfortunately there is a lot of misinformation, misunderstanding, incomplete information etc out there. I would recommend following a source of good info like an IBCLC or your local La Leche League group perhaps or joining one of the BF support groups on FB etc. Or even a good book? Amy Brown and Lucy Ruddle are some BF authors I like. Lucy Ruddle has just brought out a great book correcting loads of popular myths! I will also link some helpful videos, blog posts etc at the end of this post.

You don't need to "drain" a breast, this is a myth anyway as breasts are not like bottles which need to be filled up and emptied. Milk is basically being made all of the time but very slowly (imagine a dripping tap), it will "pool" in your milk ducts between feeds, particularly in the early days which is why your breasts will physically feel full. They are, but it's not because they're holding the entire volume of your baby's next feed, it's just a kind of overflow holder. When your baby latches on and begins to suck you'll get the letdown reflex, which tells your glands to produce faster (imagine the tap being turned on) - this is the bulk of your baby's feed and it's being produced as they drink it. As they get full, the speed and strength of their sucking will reduce until they are just doing that fluttery kind of sleep sucking and may fall asleep, unlatch or fall off the breast as they lose the tension in their mouth. Once they have slowed down sucking, you'll be back to the dripping tap kind of production, which (hopefully!) means you won't squirt milk everywhere when they come off. (This happens later when they are an easily distracted 3-4 month old and your toddler does something very interesting across the room! They unlatch in the "tap turned on" phase and you leak everywhere.) But anyway, because they reduce the flow by themselves when they've had enough, you don't need to worry about whether things are "draining" or not because that's not really how it works. Some women can always continue to express milk after a feed and some can't, no correlation to supply BTW, so feeding until empty is not a useful goal and nor is it a necessary one.

By the same token, keep baby on one side until they come off by themselves or they get agitated/fussy on one side and then swap over. There are situations where you would ignore this and swap them more regularly or put them back on the same side, but these are for specific situations - for most people, don't count minutes at all (if you're using an app, put it away because they encourage you to uselessly count minutes - this will cause confusion and stress) just watch the baby and swap when they seem to be finished. They might or might not want the second side. Again, trust your baby. If they want more, they will let you know.

Some babies are fast feeders and some are more leisurely feeders. Many have varied length feeds. Some people count only the fast, strong sucking as the feed time and take them off (or stop counting) when they get to the fluttery bit and some let them stay attached and may even count this time as the feed continuing, so might be counting a lot of time when the baby is actually asleep and milk is only slowly dribbling in. Sometimes during cluster feeding in particular, they will have one of these strong sucking sessions, then doze off and do a bit of fluttery sucking or just stay attached and then wake up and do a bit more strong drinking triggering another letdown, so it can even be hard to tell when one feed has ended and the next one has started, which again plays havoc with the counting of minutes, and probably accounts for some of the wide variation that you will come across when talking to other breastfeeding mums. BTW, it is beneficial to let them continue when they are doing the fluttery sucking, so if you don't want/need to take them off, then it's fine (and helpful!) to let them continue. But it's not totally necessary to do it every time, so if you do need to go somewhere and want to put them in the car seat, or really need a wee and want to put them down or just are fed up and want a break, it's fine to break the latch once they change to that. But they are getting milk when they do it, they are not "just using you as a dummy" (as some people will tell you).

Totally agree that their poo often has very little correlation to anything, it will vary, it's almost always just poo.

Here are some links which might be helpful :)

www.analyticalarmadillo.co.uk/2010/07/foremilkhindmilk-and-lot-of-confusion.html

This was a great one but is now gone! I have found it on web archive which means it takes longer to load - it's not broken if you're getting a long wait time.

web.archive.org/web/20210617162525/thefunnyshapedwoman.blogspot.com/2011/05/foremilk-and-hindmilk-in-quest-of.html

The other BF videos on this channel are great too.

Fritilleries · 25/07/2022 06:16

BertieBotts · 24/07/2022 19:42

Unfortunately there is a lot of misinformation, misunderstanding, incomplete information etc out there. I would recommend following a source of good info like an IBCLC or your local La Leche League group perhaps or joining one of the BF support groups on FB etc. Or even a good book? Amy Brown and Lucy Ruddle are some BF authors I like. Lucy Ruddle has just brought out a great book correcting loads of popular myths! I will also link some helpful videos, blog posts etc at the end of this post.

You don't need to "drain" a breast, this is a myth anyway as breasts are not like bottles which need to be filled up and emptied. Milk is basically being made all of the time but very slowly (imagine a dripping tap), it will "pool" in your milk ducts between feeds, particularly in the early days which is why your breasts will physically feel full. They are, but it's not because they're holding the entire volume of your baby's next feed, it's just a kind of overflow holder. When your baby latches on and begins to suck you'll get the letdown reflex, which tells your glands to produce faster (imagine the tap being turned on) - this is the bulk of your baby's feed and it's being produced as they drink it. As they get full, the speed and strength of their sucking will reduce until they are just doing that fluttery kind of sleep sucking and may fall asleep, unlatch or fall off the breast as they lose the tension in their mouth. Once they have slowed down sucking, you'll be back to the dripping tap kind of production, which (hopefully!) means you won't squirt milk everywhere when they come off. (This happens later when they are an easily distracted 3-4 month old and your toddler does something very interesting across the room! They unlatch in the "tap turned on" phase and you leak everywhere.) But anyway, because they reduce the flow by themselves when they've had enough, you don't need to worry about whether things are "draining" or not because that's not really how it works. Some women can always continue to express milk after a feed and some can't, no correlation to supply BTW, so feeding until empty is not a useful goal and nor is it a necessary one.

By the same token, keep baby on one side until they come off by themselves or they get agitated/fussy on one side and then swap over. There are situations where you would ignore this and swap them more regularly or put them back on the same side, but these are for specific situations - for most people, don't count minutes at all (if you're using an app, put it away because they encourage you to uselessly count minutes - this will cause confusion and stress) just watch the baby and swap when they seem to be finished. They might or might not want the second side. Again, trust your baby. If they want more, they will let you know.

Some babies are fast feeders and some are more leisurely feeders. Many have varied length feeds. Some people count only the fast, strong sucking as the feed time and take them off (or stop counting) when they get to the fluttery bit and some let them stay attached and may even count this time as the feed continuing, so might be counting a lot of time when the baby is actually asleep and milk is only slowly dribbling in. Sometimes during cluster feeding in particular, they will have one of these strong sucking sessions, then doze off and do a bit of fluttery sucking or just stay attached and then wake up and do a bit more strong drinking triggering another letdown, so it can even be hard to tell when one feed has ended and the next one has started, which again plays havoc with the counting of minutes, and probably accounts for some of the wide variation that you will come across when talking to other breastfeeding mums. BTW, it is beneficial to let them continue when they are doing the fluttery sucking, so if you don't want/need to take them off, then it's fine (and helpful!) to let them continue. But it's not totally necessary to do it every time, so if you do need to go somewhere and want to put them in the car seat, or really need a wee and want to put them down or just are fed up and want a break, it's fine to break the latch once they change to that. But they are getting milk when they do it, they are not "just using you as a dummy" (as some people will tell you).

Totally agree that their poo often has very little correlation to anything, it will vary, it's almost always just poo.

Here are some links which might be helpful :)

www.analyticalarmadillo.co.uk/2010/07/foremilkhindmilk-and-lot-of-confusion.html

This was a great one but is now gone! I have found it on web archive which means it takes longer to load - it's not broken if you're getting a long wait time.

web.archive.org/web/20210617162525/thefunnyshapedwoman.blogspot.com/2011/05/foremilk-and-hindmilk-in-quest-of.html

The other BF videos on this channel are great too.

Now this is why mumsmet was made. Amazing post!

Bigdeluxe1 · 25/07/2022 10:46

BertieBotts · 24/07/2022 19:42

Unfortunately there is a lot of misinformation, misunderstanding, incomplete information etc out there. I would recommend following a source of good info like an IBCLC or your local La Leche League group perhaps or joining one of the BF support groups on FB etc. Or even a good book? Amy Brown and Lucy Ruddle are some BF authors I like. Lucy Ruddle has just brought out a great book correcting loads of popular myths! I will also link some helpful videos, blog posts etc at the end of this post.

You don't need to "drain" a breast, this is a myth anyway as breasts are not like bottles which need to be filled up and emptied. Milk is basically being made all of the time but very slowly (imagine a dripping tap), it will "pool" in your milk ducts between feeds, particularly in the early days which is why your breasts will physically feel full. They are, but it's not because they're holding the entire volume of your baby's next feed, it's just a kind of overflow holder. When your baby latches on and begins to suck you'll get the letdown reflex, which tells your glands to produce faster (imagine the tap being turned on) - this is the bulk of your baby's feed and it's being produced as they drink it. As they get full, the speed and strength of their sucking will reduce until they are just doing that fluttery kind of sleep sucking and may fall asleep, unlatch or fall off the breast as they lose the tension in their mouth. Once they have slowed down sucking, you'll be back to the dripping tap kind of production, which (hopefully!) means you won't squirt milk everywhere when they come off. (This happens later when they are an easily distracted 3-4 month old and your toddler does something very interesting across the room! They unlatch in the "tap turned on" phase and you leak everywhere.) But anyway, because they reduce the flow by themselves when they've had enough, you don't need to worry about whether things are "draining" or not because that's not really how it works. Some women can always continue to express milk after a feed and some can't, no correlation to supply BTW, so feeding until empty is not a useful goal and nor is it a necessary one.

By the same token, keep baby on one side until they come off by themselves or they get agitated/fussy on one side and then swap over. There are situations where you would ignore this and swap them more regularly or put them back on the same side, but these are for specific situations - for most people, don't count minutes at all (if you're using an app, put it away because they encourage you to uselessly count minutes - this will cause confusion and stress) just watch the baby and swap when they seem to be finished. They might or might not want the second side. Again, trust your baby. If they want more, they will let you know.

Some babies are fast feeders and some are more leisurely feeders. Many have varied length feeds. Some people count only the fast, strong sucking as the feed time and take them off (or stop counting) when they get to the fluttery bit and some let them stay attached and may even count this time as the feed continuing, so might be counting a lot of time when the baby is actually asleep and milk is only slowly dribbling in. Sometimes during cluster feeding in particular, they will have one of these strong sucking sessions, then doze off and do a bit of fluttery sucking or just stay attached and then wake up and do a bit more strong drinking triggering another letdown, so it can even be hard to tell when one feed has ended and the next one has started, which again plays havoc with the counting of minutes, and probably accounts for some of the wide variation that you will come across when talking to other breastfeeding mums. BTW, it is beneficial to let them continue when they are doing the fluttery sucking, so if you don't want/need to take them off, then it's fine (and helpful!) to let them continue. But it's not totally necessary to do it every time, so if you do need to go somewhere and want to put them in the car seat, or really need a wee and want to put them down or just are fed up and want a break, it's fine to break the latch once they change to that. But they are getting milk when they do it, they are not "just using you as a dummy" (as some people will tell you).

Totally agree that their poo often has very little correlation to anything, it will vary, it's almost always just poo.

Here are some links which might be helpful :)

www.analyticalarmadillo.co.uk/2010/07/foremilkhindmilk-and-lot-of-confusion.html

This was a great one but is now gone! I have found it on web archive which means it takes longer to load - it's not broken if you're getting a long wait time.

web.archive.org/web/20210617162525/thefunnyshapedwoman.blogspot.com/2011/05/foremilk-and-hindmilk-in-quest-of.html

The other BF videos on this channel are great too.

Wow thank you so much for replying with so much detail! 💕 honestly you have no idea how much your post has helped, thank you again!

OP posts:
Bigdeluxe1 · 25/07/2022 10:47

Thank you everyone for your replies! 💜

OP posts:
Wnikat · 25/07/2022 10:49

You've got some great answers above but just to say breastfeeding poo is meant to be liquid, it won't firm up until they go in solids.

grey12 · 25/07/2022 10:59

Foremilk/hindmilk is not outdated or a myth as anyone who pumps will let you know 🤷🏻‍♀️

But as far as feeding the baby it's all good and all important and it doesn't matter what your child is having or not. It's all milk.

As far as I have researched, the main job of the very thick hindmilk is to feed a child who has eaten their normal fare but still wants more (because they're growing). Soooo drinking the last dredges of the milks promotes more milk production 😉

Your child is fine!!

BertieBotts · 25/07/2022 11:12

Read the links. The idea that there are two types of milk and you start off with one and switch to the other is misleading - milk gets fattier over time and there is no distinction about where one "ends" and the other "begins". The idea that foremilk (aside from not even being a discrete thing) is less valuable or less satisfying or less nutritious is also misleading - all milk is good and baby will generally get both kinds of milk within a feed anyway, regardless of the length of it.

It's true that the milk that first comes out is less fatty but this is only part of the information and it causes confusion and worry, that's why we tend to say it's outdated.

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