Need more encouragement

[chicaguapa]

DS is 20 days old and I posted a thread a couple of days ago about building up milk supply as I'm having problems bf'ing due to thrush.

Finding a GP to prescribe me the drugs the NCT bf'ing counsellor says I need is impossible as I seem to be getting the same GP each time I go who has a reputation for being stingy with medication. The result of which is that I've had thrush since Sat, diagnosed on Monday but today I am still no better off as the cream GP gave me isn't working.

My problem is that because of bthe pain I can't feed DS for long enough to sustain him and while I'm putting him on the breast 2 or 3 times a days it's only for 5 mins each breast just to keep my supply going and so he doesn't forget what to do. So DH is having to top up those feeds with formula AND give him bottles at all the other times... this includes during the night.

I've said that I don't want to give DS the bottle as I don't want to jeopardise his return to full-time bf'ing and I feel that my giving him a bottle will confuse him. I want to keep my feeds for him exclusively breastfed. That said, I'm also struggling with watching him take a bottle and changing the nappies which reinforce the knowledge that he's having more formula milk than breastmilk at the moment. I know it's a temporary situation and he needs to be fed etc, but with hormones flying around, it's really hard to deal with.

But the situation in the house is really fraught as DH has gone back to work this week, (although he works from home so is around for feeds) but obviously he's struggling with doing all the night time feeds then working the next day. He's ok with this and I had a word last night about how he needs to reassure me that he agrees with me that I don't stop bf'ing etc and we carry on how we are (him doing all feeds etc) until the thrush has gone.

The biggest problem, what a surprise, is my MIL who obviously feels that I'm being selfish by refusing to give up bf'ing and comes from the school of thought that if it hurts, stop and being bottlefed never did her son any harm. So she rings up and DH is shouting at DD in the background because he's so tired and run ragged and I'm trying to justify to her why we're doing etc.

I'm also having problems with my sister who didn't bf her 2 and she feels I'm saying that bottlefeeding is really wrong which is why I'm happy to put up with the situation at the moment because I won't change to bottlefeeding.

Sorry this is really rambling, but it's a really difficult time as it is with a 3-week old baby and then there are all these extra problems and having to sterilise bottles etc. I just feel that I need a few pats on the back and people to tell me that I'm not being selfish asking DH to do everything while I get rid of the thrush etc.

Incidentally, my HV (VERY pro bf'ing) has just phoned who's going to slap the GP for refusing to give me the drug that she also thinks I need and for telling me that sore cracked nipples is just part of bf'ing (yes he really did say that! ). So hopefully I'll get what I need today and start to get rid of this thrush so we can get back to normal.

Oh Chicaguapa what an awful time for you.
Hope your HV manages to sort your doc out for you.
Sending lots of positive thoughts and hugs your way

I know its difficult but try and block out all the negative comments. As long as you and your DH believe you're doing the right thing then you are and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

Well done for getting this far, you will do it, and heres a big pat on the back for you and your DH!

What a terrible experience - and how incredible that your GP is being so obstructive. If you can possibly summon up the will to argue - can you ask to see someone else? You need the proper medication for thrush, as your HV and the NCT BF counsellor so rightly say. And sore cracked nipples are not part of BF - yes they're very common, but they're a sign of an underlying problem, not just something to be ignored. What an idiot.

You're doing amazingly just hanging in there - I really hope you get the proper thrush treatment, because that should put you on the road to recovery.

MIL and sister should be ignored of course - this is your decision and your baby and you are admirably trying to do the best thing. No reflection on their choices.

Keep going back to the helpful people you've got around you - sounds like the Health Visitor is on the right track, and the NCT breastfeeding counsellor should be able to give you support. Just talking through what's happening can make it all seem bearable.

And it should get better quickly once the thrush gets treated - try to take each day at a time, each feed at a time.

Hi, you are doing so well. I really hope you get through this. Bfing is a lovely thing to do once you get past all the pain. The first few weeks are a crazy time anyway. Good luck and try to get as much rest as possible.

The GP has now refused point blank to prescribe the drug. Basically, it's not licenced to be given to bf'ing mothers as it comes through the milk BUT the drug IS licenced to be given directly to babies as a much higher dose than would come through the milk anyway.

Fortunately, the NCT bf'ing counsellor is married to a GP who is on call tonight so although I'm not on his books, he will be able to prescribe me the drug if I "call him out" tonight. It's another day's delay which is frustrating but at least I'm finally moving in the right direction.

chicaguapa - how frustrating - and thrush can be awful and really painful, so it obviously needs tackling. Thank goodness it sounds like your NCT counsellor is great.

Meanwhile - have you tried different feeding positions (e.g. rugby hold vs. across chest) to take some of the pressure off. I did found that helped a bit with the pain. Also I got my dp to help me latch the baby on - holding her arms out of the way, until I got her in a good position with a really big open mouth. If your dh is around and can just help with those few minutes it takes to get the baby latched on, that might be useful.

Really hope things improve fast for you. I remember this stage so well.

Do you really think that you giving your baby a bottle will confuse him/her too much. I mean he's getting one anyway from someone else. It seems a shame your dh has to do all the night feeds and work full time too. He must be getting all those cosy cuddles. I'm sure you've thought it through.

But I also agree if you are really committed to b'feeding it is worth doing anything you can to get it working.

chicaguapa - sorry to hear you are having such an awful time. Until you get a prescription for the medication you can actually but a dose over the counter to start you off. Unfortunately it is approx £12 but you may find it will help.

Have you tried feeding with a nipple shield? I do not normally recommend using them but it may help you through the pain at the moment. A friend of mine used them for a few days until the cream worked for her. What cream did you get prescribed? Is the baby getting treatment too? The shield will probably need to be boiled to sterilise after feeds as milton is not always effective against thrush.

Have you tried hand expressing your milk if you cannot bear to feed? That would be less traumatic than using a pump on painful nipples. Have you tried cupfeeding your DS? Babies cupfeed well and it doesn't take as long as you might imagine. Your NCT counsellor should be able to help you with that. Hopefully the thrush will be treated soon and you will be able to resume feeding. You are doing the right thing by persevering because this problem will pass.

mears - what will I get a dose of? I don't mind paying. I got Nystatin cream for me (does not seem to be working) and Nystatin oral suspension for ds (which HAS worked).

I've tried nipple shields but found he was feeding for longer with them which ended up making my nipples just as sore as feeding without.

I've been putting lanisoh (sp?) on the nipples which works really quickly at healing them but as ds is only being fed by me 2 or 3 times a day and only for 5 mins, I'm not putting a lot of pressure on them anyway.

I'll look into cup feeding. I've not heard of it before. Thanks.

Agree with mears that expressing will help keep up your supply as you sort through everything. It's so hard to deal with thrush on top of everything else at 3 weeks. Hugs to you

Hi chicaguapa

So sorry to hear of all your problems but I think you're doing marvellously to keep on with the breastfeeding even though it's hurting you so much. And I'm not a breastfeeding counsellor myself but I would echo the others who have said that it takes about six weeks to get the breastfeeding sorted, so please do hang on in there!

I found the Nystatin was no help whatsoever for myself and ds2, but when I went back to the surgery they prescribed Daktarin gel for both of us which worked a dream - ds2's thrush disappeared from his mouth within the day, although both of you do have to keep using it for a few days longer after it's disappeared to make sure it doesn't come back. So I'm not sure which drug your bf counsellor has suggested (and she does sound wonderful) but it might help to know that Daktarin worked for us.

Thrush can be so awful so I'm really thinking of you.

Fluconazole is the name of the drug. (Diflucan is the trade name but is more expensive).

This info may be helpful thrush

Chicaguapa, I mixed-fed my ds from 2wks. I understand how you feel about the bottle - it can be very distressing in this difficult time for you. I couldn't bear to give ds his first few bottles, but then dh went back to work and I had no choice. I went on to mix-feed ds until 5.5m, and he never rejected the breast nor got confused. We used Avent and made sure that the teat was well into his mouth, so that he 'gaped' just like he would when breastfeeding.

I had thrush for ages with dd and it took trying several different treatments before we found one that did the trick. I tried nipple shields with mixed success, and found that keeping my boobs warm so that the nipple never became erect from cold helped with the pain. If it gets to the point that you can't bear anything touching them, take the handles of a pair of small tea-strainers and tuck them inside your bra to keep the bra off your nipples.

If you want to feed lying down, try wedging pillows or cushions against your back to support you, and another good roll of cushion under your neck with your head supported. I used to stretch my underneath arm up and away from my body, not supporting the baby's head.

You might want to invent an emergency when MIL telephones, so that you have an excuse not to talk to her! You don't have to justify yourself - you're doing your best, and your dh agrees and suppoorts you, that's all that counts.

Sorry, 'take the handles off a pair of tea strainers' - and tuck the strainers in your bra, not the handles

hang in there
helps rubbing milk on your nipples & using the washable breast pads (better then the disposable ones as they stay drier) they are easy to wash.
found soreness went quicker with no lotions & potions

like tea strainer idea!

good luck

If I were you I'd buy the Diflucan, and not tell the pharmacist I was breastfeeding. Your GP sounds appalling and I'd change just on the principle that anyone that stupid isn't safe.

Thrush won't just go away - it will get worse if you don't treat it.

Just want to express my support!! Had exactly the same problems (with two babies) and the thrush nearly finished me off. I couldn't even stand up straight as my boobs were so sore! The drug Diflucan worked wonders for me (my GP and midwife okayed it for me even though there is something in it about not using when breastfeeding. Didn't know why that was though.) The creams were useless I found, painful and messy to apply and had no effect.

I wouldn't want to go against mears' advice as she is of course a b/f counsellor, but expressing was for me less painful than feeding when things were very bad. Never got the hang of hand expressing though.

You are doing a fantastic job, and if you are really committed to carrying on, you will make it!
You just have to concentrate on this at the moment. Don't think/worry about anything else.

We are here to urge you on!!!

its horrible when you are doing something hard and perhaps painful and some people really try to discourage you. I had a few people like that (most gave up early themselves and I felt one at least however subconscousily wanted me to fail too; she had both her mother and grandmother staying with her and constantly telling her to put her baby on the bottle). All my partners colleagues were constantly telling him to tell me that my baby neede a top up but I was adamant he would't after reading that it could quickly go to all bottles.

Luckily I had 3 really supportive friends that kept telling me it would get easier and I didn't believe them but it did. One used a homepathic thrush remedy which she said helped. I wish I knew that you could take diflucan. I didn't have nipple thrush but the regular sort and I was in agaony. I resorted to a frozen corn on the cob in my pants!

I used to go aorung the house naked a lot (easier in the summer) so nothing was youching my nipple. Also use those breast shells just to keep air aorund them. Also they are very funny and you need to laugh! (as long as you haven't had a c/s)

You have promoted me moondog - I am only a midwife not a B/F counsellor

Agree with you about the expressing although I think hand expressing is a lost art. I found it so much faster and easier than using a pump but I really only discovered that with my third and fourth babies when i returned to work.

'Only' a midwife!!! Yeah right!!
I think that you are fabulous!

Srry-don't mean to hijack, but with the hand expressing can you give a few pointer Mears please
(or steer us in the direction of relevant reading matter?)
Just the idea of squeezing the whole breast really made me feel faint......

Havn't read all the post so forgive me if i'm repeating.

Just wanted to say, you are doing a wonderful job, and don't let family members get you down, its none of their business.

And wanted to let you know then i mixed breast and bottle feeding from four weeks as i knew i would soon be returing to part time work. My midwife suggested four weeks as its early enough for them to get used to the mixing. My dd was happy to take whatever from me.

Thought i'd let you know, as it may relieve some of the pressure in your household if you could maybe give one or two bottles a day?

Good luck and hope the drugs work!!

If you try the hand expressing as mears suggests, try it in the bath!

I could always get a couple of ounces out when in bath, but nothing when i was dry and fully clothed.

???? is that common mears?