Problems breastfeeding second time round - do I persevere, mix feed or switch to bottle feeding

[spangly]

I breastfed my dd (now 2 1/2) for 10 months. I was hoping to do the same for my son who is 19 weeks. However, it seems so much more difficult this time. We started well but I've now had mastitis twice and seem to be plagued with continuous blocked ducts (4 so far this week). Also I think my supply has really diminished. Ds is now taking up to an hour and a half to feed and is often still not satisfied. He's also spending most of the night feeding (45 minutes of each hour last night). He's dropped a centile in weight, the number of poos has reduced and having introduced a bottle of formula this week in desperation he downed 6oz straight after a feed from me. He just doesn't seem to be getting enough from me. I've tried expressing but am only getting a dribble a time, if that.
I'm feeling very torn as to what to do next. Do I continue trying to express and top him up after each breastfeed switch to formula to save any more discomfort from blocked ducts and finally give my daughter some attention (it seems so unfair on her to be spending so much of the day bf'ing)?
Just wondered if anyone had any pearls of wisdom.
Thanks

It might help to find out why you are getting these blocked ducts. Could be a positioning/attachment problem. I suggest you contact a breastfeeding counsellor from one of the voluntary organisations (NCT, Breastfeeding Network, La Leche League etc) as they are likely to know far more about it than your local mw or hv, unless you are lucky enough to have one who is specially knowledgeable.

When you express are you using a pump, or hand expressing?

you need proper help I'm sure tiktok or others will be around later. I think you have to decide what you want and then get the help you need to achieve it.

I think you need expert help here - have you tried one of the bf support lines?

Sounds like you are having a tough time. I s there a breast feeding support group you can go to?

Can I just say the amount of time you are feeeding is not unusual in some cases, every baby will have times when they feed more and more so hopefully this is just one of those periods. Try not to base too much on your experience with your first child, hard though it is.
With the blocked ducts and mastitis I would suggest some sort of professional help, the numbers to the helplines are on my profile, also try your local GP surgery they may know of a support group of bf counsellor locally you could see. I know at my hospital there is a bf clinic, there could be one near you, I know that the breastfeeding cafe in northampton town centre would be able to give you advice (if you still live in NN6 anyway!)

Ah, they're open fridays babycafe

Thanks for your responses. I have tried NCT and La Leche league phone helplines. NCT suggested that maybe the latch was a problem but they have no counsellors in my area. I have ried changing the way he latches so he's taking more of the breast but this hasn't helped. I suspect our technique is partially the problem though. LA leche leaugue suggested that fatigue was to blame (I moved when ds was 10 days old and haven't really stopped since. Unfortunately staying in bed for a weekend as suggested to increase my milk supply isn't really an option. I think they do have local counsellors though so I may try them next.
Thanks for the baby cafe info Vicatorian Squalor. Unfortunately I don't live in NN6 anymore.
Elasticwoman - I'm using a manual pump but considering buying an electric one to see if that helps. I would like ds to get at least some breastmilk until at least 6 months even if it's via bottle.

If you do buy an electric one, try getting the "35 one from bruin, at toys r us, rather than paying twice the price if you don't know whether you're going to use it.

£25 one not 35"!

thanks. I'll try that one. I've noticed the others are quite expensive and I'm not too sure yet how I'll fit in expressing with an active toddler. I feel a bit like I'm letting ds down if I do discontinue bf'ing and my dd down if I don't as it's become so time consuming and I'm constantly anxious about it.

I never really had a problem with expressing, I did it in the evenings when my eldest was in bed and I could get DP to watch the baby, maybe try it then, I'm sure others will have some better advice on expressing though.
In fact theres some that will have tons of info on each bit of your problem when they get here.

I suggest hiring a pump from Ameda Egnell - google them to find a phone number which will put you in touch with your nearest agent.

Regardless of your method of feeding, I think you need and should get some help. You've just moved house and have a toddler as well, these milk problems suggest you are doing too much. Can you call in the cavalry (eg your mum) and whereabouts do you live now?

Sorry thread hi-jack -

VS - NN6 - does that mean you're up my way?? (NN8)

Living in NN14 now so not too far away just a bit further north.

I'll give expressing in the evening a go and definately look up the link for the pump. I've been trying to express a bit after each feed so I get the hind milk. It's early days though so hopefully output will improve. The lady from La Leche league said it may take a while.

Unfortunately I don't have any cavalry I can call in but dd has just started preschool a few mornings a week so fingers crossed that'll give me some time to get the milk sorted.

Not me IQ, the OP, I used to live in Npton but am in Bicester now.

Oh dear Spangly, who mothers the mother? I'll be with you in spirit but geographically I'm several counties away. Can dh help more with housework when he's not at work?

Bump for the breastfeeding nightowls.

Hi
I found breastfeeding really hard the first time round but managed for 10 months, in fact I thought it was fine until I had my second ds and realised that I probably had a latch on problem with ds1 that I didn't know about! I also found expressing impossible until I tried electric expressing and I had that £25 one form toys r us, electric expressing is amazing compared to hand pumping. It's easier in the morning as your milk supply is naturally higher although tehy do say night time milk has more sleepy type hormones in it for baby. I used to get up before my toddler and pump an hour after baby had fed and my supply went up after about a day or so of doing that, I'd have enough for a couple of feeds. It's hard work though but it stopped me getting mastitus and blocked ducts whilst I was weaning, which I had before. Anyway waffling, hope that helps?

Hi Spangly

re the blocked ducts. I get regular blocked ducts too,several times a week, and I've read everything I could get my hands on as to the causes.

My personal opinion? For me and my breasts, nothing whatsoever to do with latch, fatigue or positioning. It is almost always a visible plug of hard milk (cream? cheese? dunno!) in a nipple pore, right at the opening in the nipple, that stops the milk exiting and causes a backup of milk further into the breast.

I have refined my technique to clear these (think of the scene in Willy Wonka's chocolate factory when Augustus Gloop finally pops out of the tube under pressure of all the melted chocolate) and now am pretty damn good at fixing them almost as quickly as I discover them.

I don't think many women share my specific experience, but if you do, this may be a problem that you can live with more easily. There are a lot of useful tips on this blocked ducts thread

Good luck!

Thanks for all your supportive messages everyone.
I've invested in an electric pump today, which is already working much better than my old manual one which I think had perished from overuse with DD. I totally agree with you snotty shoulders that electric is much better than manual - should have made the change earlier. I've decided to try and pump morning and evening and top ds up with EBM (and a bit of formula if needed) after each breastfeed. He has seemed so much more content and has been sleeping better since he's been getting some extra by bottle so he obviously has been hungry.
I also received my order of lecithin today so hopefully that and the hot water bottle, cabbage leaves and olive oil will help with the blocked ducts. Thanks for the thread link verylittlecarrot. I'd read it during the week and found it really useful. Like you I seem to get a visible plug of whiteness on the nipple. I've never managed to 'pop' anything out but they seem to clear and then come back again almost immediately. They're always in the same place so obviously that area is a weak spot or not drained very well.
Anyway, thanks again and fingers crossed ds will be able to comtinue breastefeeding for longer.

oooo do work on pinging it in the shower, spangly, it's almost fun.

seriously, if you hand express in the shower, you may find you get better at clearing the repetitive plugs. It's a sort of learned skill!

also, do you like porridge / flap jacks? oats can boost your supply. and maybe try full fat milk yourself if you usually use skim or semi, just from the point of view of an easy way of getting more calories in you, if you're constantly on the go and don't get time to eat a lot.

Hi

sorry to hijack the thread but what you say spangly really struck a chord with me although i have only been feeding for six days. However DD is starving and really upset after each feed so i have been topping up with formula as my breasts are in agony and the handheld breastpump wont get anything out at all. Is it worth me hiring an electric breast pump or i have i left it too late now. I have a feeling my milk didnt come in until day five as breasts are very hard and hot now, but still its hard to hand express. My partner is saying he wants me to feed DD formula as it is giving her an upset stomach and distresing her by switching from breast to bottle all of the time.. is this right? I really wanted to breastfeed this time and feel i have left myself down, midwife is not great and told me to just give formula as DD had urates in her nappies so my milk wasnt coming through. Sorry should have started own thread i think

Hi Angel, I dont know if you did start your own thread, I'll have a look in a minute.
Giving your baby breast and bottle is not going to help your milk, if you do want to breastfeed, hold off the bottles for a few days and just put your baby to the breast as often as you can.
If you are in pain and DD is not seeming satisfied it could well be that your latch is not sorted, which once done can improve things no end.
Have you tried calling the breastfeeding helplines? The numbers are on my profile, call them and see if any of them have a breastfeeding counsellor that can come out to you, they'll check your latch and they'd also be able to explain to you and your partner the ins and outs.
Sorry you're having problems, but please persevere, there are people that can help you.

Hi VS, thanks for the kind words. i managed to express last night and am trying to express a few times a day to see if that helps. Will ring one of the helplines and see what they say, i think my milk has come in very late this time but feeling a bit more positive now i have actually managed to get some expressing done, i only got 1 0z but i was chuffed!