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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

4 month old not gaining weight - told to introduce baby rice

125 replies

soapy2 · 11/01/2008 12:00

My BF DS is 17 weeks old and has just been weighed and hasn't put on any weight in 3 weeks. He is very long and has gone up the 75th centile line perfectly up until now and is otherwise bright, healthy (wet nappies, etc) and quite wriggly! I have always had to express in the mornings to give him extra in the evenings as he is so hungry at this time. He will take 7-9oz EBM plus extra from me at around 7pm but will then usually sleep all night. This week, though, he has started to wake at least once a night. The HV told me to introduce baby rice as he hasn't gained any weight. I'm not keen and would rather continue to breast feed alone for as long as possible. He usually feeds every 2.5 to 3 hours in the day. Should I go with the baby rice or is there something I can do to up my supply, also so that I can keep up with his demands in the evenings. It is getting difficult this week to be able to express enough because of the night feeds and therefore there isn't enough for him in the evening and so I have to feed him every half hour or so before he'll go to sleep. Formula??? I'm new to this message thing so sorry if this is too long and waffly and has all been said before!

OP posts:
prettybird · 11/01/2008 15:01

Found this research New mothers are not getting the right breastfeeding advice from last summer after doing a quick Google (which also turned up how the baby food indsutry was lobbying WHO not to change its advcie back in 2000 - but then they would, wouldn't they! )

StarlightMcKenzie · 11/01/2008 15:04

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prettybird · 11/01/2008 15:08

But snowleopard - my ds was hungery and not satisfied with BM at 4 months old. I only realsie with hinsight that that was because he was going through a growth spurt. If I (and my childminder! ) hadn't been so quick to wean him, he may not have been so interested in food. He still couldn't sit up - I remember having to wedge him into a seat to feed him. If the orthodoxy at the time hadn't been 4 months, I ouwld have held off.

To be fair, there were no HVs involved, as I made a point of avoiding them as ds had been so slow to gain weight and had just used to the breast feeding support group at the hospital. But at 4 months I had had to go back to work - so no longer had easy access to the breast feeding counsellors there - and TBH, it didn't occur to me to consult them as I was "simply following standard practice". I am sure, even then, if I had asked them, they woiuld have supported me in continuing to 6 months. They had already told me the general information about reduced ear infections.

snowleopard · 11/01/2008 15:09

Some people can't breastfeed. Some people don't have enough milk. Long ago those babies would have died or been fed by another woman. It happens. Just because an HV says something that suggests a mother needs to top up or use formula, does not, necessarily, automatically, mean they are wrong.

I am actually very strongly pro-BF and I am partly playing devil's advocate here, but I hate it if I think someone might genuinely be having a problem, and they are told in no uncertain terms that they can't consider early weaning or formula and if they do they are joining in with some vast evil HV-led conspiracy. There are cases where babies are not getting enough nourishment from BM, for whatever reason. That is just a fact.

snowleopard · 11/01/2008 15:12

Sorry x-posted prettybird. Fair enough, that's your experience, but I had mine. I wanted to wait until 6 months because I was a stickler for official advice. I did not give DS solid food at the drop of a hat, after a day or two of him wanting it. It was weeks really - I remember waiting until 16 weeks had past and then waiting another week to be safer although it felt wrong.

prettybird · 11/01/2008 15:16

I actually agree with you Snoweopard. And the sad thing is, if so many HVs didn't give out the wrong advice because they don't know any better then perhaps we would be more trusitng of their advice when supplemeting is necessary.

snowleopard · 11/01/2008 15:16

Plus, just to have a general overview of all this - this 6 months figure is a construct. Months are a construct. 6 months is a mice round figure so studies have been done with that cut-off point - 4 months likewise. In our natural state we would not have been carefully counting the full moons before feeding our babies a bit of chewed whatever. We would have taken the signal from the baby about when they needed some food, whether that was at 4, 6 or 8 months or whenever.

And I am NOT saying "back to nature, it was all better before science" - i know infant mortality was higher then - but can it really be that until experts hit upon the magic figure of 6 months that all babies conveniently conform to, all mothers were in the wrong?

StarlightMcKenzie · 11/01/2008 15:21

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StarlightMcKenzie · 11/01/2008 15:24

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blisteringbarnacles · 11/01/2008 15:25

Hi Snowleopard.. am drawn to this like moth to a flame.. just want to say how much I agree with you. We CAN use our brains, and our experience, and the experiences of others, to analyse official advice. We are not children ourselves.

detoxdiva · 11/01/2008 15:28

Hi. Dd also stopped gaining weight at 17 weeks and it was suggested I try baby rice. I left it a couple of weeks and then introduced it gradually - I was still bf too. I was happy for dd to start weaning earlier than 6 months, it felt right for me at the time. She went on to move back up to the 50th centile where she stayed.

Its a personal choice - it sounds like you are not sure so take the excellent advice about b/f on here and leave it a while until you are comfortable.

StarlightMcKenzie · 11/01/2008 15:34

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snowleopard · 11/01/2008 15:36

Hmm starlight, I was referring more to there not being enough milk in some cases - rarely, because of a problem with the mother; also, when a baby is very big and hungry (rather than to the baby having a physiological digestion issue).

And I take your point that your friend got the wrong advice. But that does not mean such advice is always wrong.

What do you think of my point about 6 months being a bit arbitrary? Do you really think that all babies should be on BM only until 6 months exactly, at which point it is OK to wean? if so, how can that be? How do babies know about the calendar system we invented a few milennia ago? Sorry I am not meaning to sound confrontational, I really want to know if you think the 6 months thing is that accurate.

snowleopard · 11/01/2008 15:36

x-posted again, sorry...

snowleopard · 11/01/2008 15:37
  • but you still say not less than 6. Why? Why 6 months exactly?
snowleopard · 11/01/2008 15:39

Thanks for your post BB - that is exactly how I see it too.

tiktok · 11/01/2008 15:46

Of course six months is a 'construct'.....no one is saying that all babies wake up on the day they are six months and need something other than breastmilk. But from the evidence we have from all over the world, plus the knowledge we have of how the gut works, and matures, somewhere around the middle of the first year is when babies start to need other tastes, other textures and other nutrients.

It's not really calories they need, as breastmilk would easily continue to provide all of the necessary calories to grow, as long as they had enough of it, frequently enough. This is why we don't say 'oh, breastmilk isn't enough' when a baby of, say, six weeks starts to feed more often than he was doing the previous week because we know that simply feeding more often will do the trick. In fact, though, sometimes this is when formula is advised because there is little trust in breastmilk to do the job of feeding and growing. It is the same later on. Babies, generally speaking, are fine, calorie wise, on breastmilk for a long time. But somewhere around 6 mths, generally speaking, they will start to benefit from other foods. There are exceptions to this, of course, but as a general policy, mothers should be enabled to breastfeed exclusively for 6 mths if this is what they wish to do, and there is a strong public health argument for this being a national policy.

Blistering - you see one study on teething you think does not marry with your opinion, and that is why you disregard all evidence that in general, babies are healthier and better off without solids until about 6 mths .

It is not wishy washy to point out, as I did, the lack of studies showing benefits of solids earlier than this - a public health policy supporting solids earlier than about 6 mths is an intervention to the physiological norm, and any intervention should be shown to have benefits. And in this case, there is nothing to show that it does have benefits, and a consierable body of evidence that it does harm.

StarlightMcKenzie · 11/01/2008 15:49

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snowleopard · 11/01/2008 15:55

Tiktok surely Blistering was just making the point about teething to support the argument that experts and doctors can be over-zealous in disregarding mothers' instincts and experiences - not saying that that was the sole reason not to trust other reports.

blisteringbarnacles · 11/01/2008 15:58

Goodness tiktok you're very obedient aren't you? Public health policy changes all the time it must throw you into a flat spin!

StarlightMcKenzie · 11/01/2008 16:02

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blisteringbarnacles · 11/01/2008 16:03

I just don't understand tiktok why you're so vehement. Some things are right for some babies and some things right for others. You seem to want the government to decide what's right for all babies, and make all mothers conform. I think mothers should have more choice.

prettybird · 11/01/2008 16:05

I think even before the governemnt advice changes from weaning at 4 motnhs (or "at least 4 mthns) Tiktok was advising 6 months on the basis of research. In the same way that I am sure that the (excellent) breast feeding counsellors at my maternity hosptial would have supported me if I had wanted to cntinue to 6 months even more the official guidelines changed. But they were equally supportive of those women who had chosen to mixed feed - as is Tiktok.

Even in 2000, the WHO was advising 4 to 6 months - only I didn't know that as it wasn't exactly promoted in this country - I am sure not a little to do with the fact that maternity leave was only 4 months.

StarlightMcKenzie · 11/01/2008 16:08

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lulumama · 11/01/2008 16:09

mothers do have a choice

they can choose to give baby rice or a full 3 course dinner whenever they choose, at 6 weeks if they want to.... they won;t be arrested for it ( actually , would it be deemed neglect / harmful ? dunno.... )

mothers have a choice to listen to their HV

listen to mumsnet

listen to women like tiktok who have researched and trained in this area for years

listen to their own mothers, sisters and peers

but no-one can see inside your baby's gut to see if it is mature enough for food, so why not follow the guidelines? and i understand there is a difference between giving some first tastes at 5 months than at 8 weeks or rusk / rice in a bottle at an early age......

you cannot harm by delaying weaning onto solids, but you possibly might be weaning earlier.

no-one is saying follow the guidelines blindly, they must be right because the government said so, but there have been plenty of references to information and research that backs it up.

you can still choose not to follow it

no-one can object to having more information, surely?