Homerton Hospital

[HarrietTheSpy]

Interesting little update, 3 years after I had DD there. The hospital is no longer making formula available to new mothers on the post natal wards. If you bring it, they will show you how to mix it up (and presumably how to sterilise bottles, etc), but it's no longer on tap as it was when I was there.

I don't know how I feel about this. I am a total supporter of BF'd, and fed DD for 13 mo (last five mo mixed). And the way the formula got dolled out when Iw as there with barely an attempt to show mums how to feed - and you had to be really assertive about asking for help -was unbelievable coming from a hospital which preached feed on demand before birth. However, here are my concerns:

1. Have they actually improved the training given to midwives on breastfeeding?
2. Are they making more resources available to women who need help? God knows how many will be required for the bottle feeding training (potentially diverted from the breastfeeding, since they can't just hand out prepackaged bottles of milk anymore). There's a reasonable amount of gear to explain and get to grips with. Cleanliness of the bottles brought in from home and cleaned at the hospital- don't even think about it. Sorry, but yuck.
3. I'm thinking about that 3 am moment, when you're struggling to feed (and with limited help) and you think...well I might just try a bit of the formula in the cup the baby is shouting the house down and I'm a nervous wreck!!! I know I know it's not supposed to be the way to go, but I'm wondering how scary it might feel to a mum when it's not there at all...and whether it could contribute to - let's buy osme just in case...which could also not be good.

Thoughts?

Has anyone else encountered this elsewhere? HOmerton is in London.

watford general is the same, they changed to this at the same time as the trusts debts were made known,although they said there was no link! they also stopped the preparation sessions for the birth and early days that covered issues such as breast feeding, so new mums to be really felt valued and well informed. I believe they have just started the sessions again or are going to, not much comfort to those that missed out though.

I suppose another option would be to make it available but chargeable.

Everyone who formula feeds pays for the stuff when they go home, why should it be free whilst they are in hospital ?

On the other hand we pay for our own food at home but get free meals whilst in hospital so should the new born baby also not be fed for free whilst technically still an inpatient ?

I'm guessing it is just another clumsy attempt to increase breastfeeding rates in the UK.

I would imagine this is something to do with the formula laws?
There are people that know a lot more than me but I think it may be that it isn't allowed to be given to the hospitals free of charge anymore, plus they cannot be seen to have it on show and advertising it as such, or soemthing.
I would expect if your baby is screaming with hunger at 3am and you haven't bought along any formula milk there would be some there but for emergencies rather than just dished out iyswim.
Is it mentioned in your hospital info before you actually go in to give birth? Like some hospitals will provide nappies in some instances whereas others won't.

I am ambivalent about this policy, too, which is nothing to do with formula laws, but is something some maternity units are doing to support bf.

There should always be formula available for emergencies, of course.

I am uncomfortable because it more or less forces a mother to decide before the birth what's she's going to do, and leaving things open might be better.

Harriet, I totally agree with your training question, too.

I gave birth in the Homerton in april 07, I was told beforehand that formula would not be available, that they didnt keep the little glass bottles anywhere in the hospital anymore, and that I would have to use the hospitals steriliser, and bring a can of formula powder and make up feeds as baby needed them.

I pointed out that I was booked in for a c section and I wouldnt be able to get out of bed the first night to make up bottles, so I would bring pre-streilised bottles and cartons of ready made formula so I could make feeds up in my bed the first night, I was told that I had to bring powder because I needed to be shown how to make up formula safely, after pointing out that my 2 yr old dd had survived ok on my formula making skills, and that I wasnt prepared to rely on an already busy midwife to make my baby a feed, they relented and allowed me to bring ready made.

When I was getting ready to go to theatre, I was told a list of things to take down with me for the baby, when I asked about bringing milk down I was told not to bother? which I thought was odd, when dd2 was born chewing her fists, I was told I had at least another hour before I would be back on the ward and able to give her formula, unless I wanted to try breastfeeding, which I did as she was hungry and I had no other option, as it worked out I am glad, as I ended up breastfeeding for 4 months, but I dont think it was a very fair way to go about it.

Btw, the glass bottles of formula ARE still kept in the hospital, as my cousin had a baby there in nov 07, and although she wanted to breastfeed, her dd was in SCBU for a few hours and they gave her formula from the glass bottles.

They have a similar policy at King's College Hospital too. They advise bringing in ready mixed cartons, as they state there are no facilities to sterilise and prepare bottles. I know this is well-meant, but when I was there the bf support was minimal, so the equation didn't really balance.

I have thought about this and am pretty anti it. I think, as Tiktok says, it forces women to make a decision before the baby's born - and I bet you that if more hospitals take this policy on board, magazines will start adding "formula and bottles" to their lists of things you need to take into hospital.

Short-sighted and ill considered, this policy, imo.

Not so sure about the chargeable formula. I think that if you decide you'll need formula, it's fair enough that you are charged for it, really. I will think more about that.

It will only work if the staff are properly trained not just in the physiology of breastfeeding initiation but in counselling skills as well.

I had a good bf experience in the Homerton at the end of 2006 - all the mws were v supportive of bfing and whenever I rang for a mw to help one turned up (and HELPED). Especially the male mw who gently pointed out (as I ws panicking about DS not feeding for a while) that I was missing his feeding cues. Things got a lot easier from that point

I wasnt given any help whatsoever with breastfeeding, just told to feed my baby, I hadnt breastfed dd1 so was a complete and utter beginner, luckily for me dd2 was an easy baby to feed.

I knew I was plning to bf from the start, though. Agree that the choice shouldn;t be forced on mothers.

Interesting Lanismum, perhaps I was lucky? It was at the weekend and during a full moon, so they were busy (and we had lots of trouble actually getting ourselves out of there). I had a pretty quick birth as DS fed straight away, so I guess I didn;t have too many problems at the start to deal with.

They were v busy when I was there too, and to be fair I never asked for any help, as I could see they were rushed off their feet.

Yes, I am with hunkermunker.

I am due to give birth at Homerton in July. Last time (Apr 06) my plan was to attempt to breastfeed for at least the first few days/weeks. I therefore breastfed ALL night (glad I did but my nipples were very sore) but was v grateful for the bottle of formula (and supportive comment) easily available to me in the morning. It hadn't occurred to me to take formula and didn't realise they would have it really. I went home and continued to breastfeed (with the occasional mix feed).

This time, it seems I would have to prepare bottles and formula and that JUST IN CASE and tbh it's gonna be pretty easy to just use those (easier than getting up and asking a midwife really - who at least could give you some support). So will prob have to have more willpower to continue in that early (painful) bit .

Agree v much with counselling skills too - trying to continue with something that bloody hurts after 21 hours of childbirth pain is very hard!!

I am prob just cheeky and rang for help (I was in a side room so couldn't see how busy they were I suppose). You do have to ask, though which is fair enough. MM: ring that bell, get the support when (if) you need it . And take the bf support line numbers in with you as well.

(I also liked the fact that they had CLEANERS and people to empty the bins)

Oh, I am making it sound horrible but I think I had a similar experience to you Effie. Breastfeeding was fine, just everytime dd made a squawk I shoved her to the boob - she fed for two hours solid!! (oooooops - in retrospect, think it was lovely for bonding though )

I LOVE the Homerton (practically live there but that's another story). Everyone except the stupid lady who bruised me all over unable to take my bloods - 6 attempts - last week (but then the supernice lady who did it in a second made up for it!)

Good advice about ASKING for help: I had to ring lots cos I had epidural and couldn't even move to get dd out of bedside cot! V (busy) midwife put her next to me which was great, and one reassured me that she will be a bit traumatised cos of the difficult (and tbh the process of) birth which was good for my head knowing to just comfort her... by whacking her on the boob again

Now, we are putting flat on market but am sort of secretly hoping we don't move til after July - I want my baby at the Homerton!

the blood people were fabulous - I have didgy thin veins and my mw always had to poke and prod a lot, but it took them about 10 secs to do the lot.

Yes, I know my veins aren't easy. Most can do it fine but there is ONE woman...

Oh, I am going to rant. But I think I had her last time and there was someone else there so she gave up and let them do it. But this time she just KEPT ON GOING. I was like, ok what about this arm, do you want to try my hand? and she did. And couldn't get any. And kept going to me as if it was my fault my blood wasn't flowing. Sorry! And I am always lovely and pleasant and chatty - 'ooh don't worry, why don't you do someone else and I'll try and warm up or something?' thinking 'JUST STOP'. Eventually someone else came in and suggested we went to the normal blood place (which usually is rammed but was v non-busy) and basically the woman there said I should just ask for her next time (see, I said I love Homerton). But will def avoid that bloody woman...

I look like a freakin' pin cushion and am bruised to f*ck. Even the (nice) woman went 'gosh, you have been through it'

Homerton is supposed to have a special consultant dedicated to bf, but she was allegedly on holiday when we were there when I had my dd in 06. I later heard from someone who said she asked for her too, but was told that she was on holiday, but later met the consultant and found out she wasn't on holiday at the time. Hmm... Who knows.

Anyway, I was very clear about wanting to breastfeed, and the midwives tried the old shove-baby-a-boob trick, but when it was clear DD was having problems latching, they started pushing formula - even insisted on testing her blood sugar levels when she was about 12 hours old, like I was starving her. I had to be really pushy to get expressing equipment - can you believe the only expressing machines they have are on the premature ward?!

Besides obviously getting the opportunity to have good whinge about the midwives there, I think the point I'm making is that they weren't adequately trained then, I doubt they are trained now. The woman in the bed next to me asked for help, but wasn't quite as forceful as me, and while I expressed for a couple of days until we managed a semi-decent latch, she was bottlefeeding straight away.

As an addendum, we noticed straight away that dd had a "medium" tongue tie, but the pediatrician on the ward dismissed this as not being relevant to dd's not latching, even shoving a gloved finger in her mouth to prove that she could suck. I now know that that is bollocks. Hey ho.

The good news is that dd is 19 months, and still bf, which is what I wanted.

Assuming that at the Homerton you will have to take in ready made cartons and your own bottles/teats etc if you intend to formula feed, what facilities are they making available for cleaning/sterlising bottles between each feed ?

If you were in for several days post c-section you'd get through many small bottles each day. Jolly expensive, as much of it is wasted unless you have a fridge to keep opened and part-used cartons in. I take full responsibility for the cleanliness of my own kitche and fridge but aren't the hospitals taking a risk with having to provide clean kitchen facilities to formula feeding mums. I can just see a raft of litigation cases where the only facilities were dirty or harbouring bacteria, but maybe the formula feeding mums will be put on a cleaning rota to keep the facilities clean ! It may force formula feeding mums to use ready made cartons whilst in hospital which is way more expensive than making up feeds from powder.

The more I think about it the more annoyed I get on behalf of mums who know that they want to use formula right from the start.

If the formula is to be made available but chargeable, why ? They don't charge the mums for their food, why charge for the baby's food ? Its inconsistent treatment of the two types of inpatient, mother and baby.

If you were undecided before you went into hospital so you took formula/bottles with you but started breastfeeding anyway, wouldn't that carton or two of formula be a bit tempting when you're back at home, already bought and sitting in the cupboard just ready for if breastfeeding wasn't proving so easy once your short hospital stay was over.

I think its taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut or "short-sighted and ill-considered" as hunker more eloquently describes it.

I had ds at Homerton 3 months ago and no, their training has not improved. I tried to express due to baby being in scbu for a couple of days and when I couldn't, scby nurses pushed frmula big time. because baby wasn;t with me on maternity ward, the miswives there wouldn't help me fight my corner. And bf counsellor on holiday then too, mmmm. Been meaning to write a letter to head midwife since, a nonsense that they should be awarded baby-friendly - sent me home without a clue (other than have a midwive plonk baby on boob)

I had ds at Homerton 3 months ago and no, their training has not improved. I tried to express due to baby being in scbu for a couple of days and when I couldn't, scby nurses pushed frmula big time. because baby wasn;t with me on maternity ward, the miswives there wouldn't help me fight my corner. And bf counsellor on holiday then too, mmmm. Been meaning to write a letter to head midwife since, a nonsense that they should be awarded baby-friendly - sent me home without a clue (other than have a midwive plonk baby on boob)