Please help me to continue breastfeeding...at the end of my tether but don't want to give up now - long, sorry.

[Caz10]

will try to cut a long story short!

DD is almost 5 weeks old. Latched on well (or so I thought) at the start and all seemed rosy.

Then at about 2-3 weeks I started to get really bad pain on one side, cracked nipple etc, I was putting on cream etc but nothing seemed to be helping. Got to the point where I was crying every time she latched on, couldn't stand the pain. Lovely lovely BFN BFA came out to see me and basically my latch on that side was all wrong. I had nipple damage and severe nerve compression - OW!

So tried and tried to get latch sorted out, nipple started to heal up, still sore but bearable.

Went to BF support group last week, said latch was improving, keep going etc, I was starting to feel quite positive about it even though it was still sore and a struggle.

It has been taking AGES to get her latched on, basically she will open her mouth wide but not tip her head back, or she will tip her head back but with her mouth firmly shut. I know it is just a learning curve but it can take up to 45 mins to get her on, normally about 10mins, and it's getting me down seeing her distressed. It's also knocking my confidence for BF in public as it's so hard to get her on.

Now in the past week I've been getting really bad deep breast pain, went back to BF group today and they think it's probably thrush which has got in when my nipple was damaged. They gave me the BFN leaflet and I have a lot of the symptoms. Can't get an appointment with bloody GP till next week. On top of that, apparently my latch, which I thought was getting better, is still no good.

I really really don't want to stop, but it feels like this is getting harder instead of easier.

DH is very supportive, but I think he's losing patience with me too. He won't believe that the "nose to nipple" thing is true, and thinks she looks too awkward! Half the time I end up putting the nipple level with her mouth after about 10 minutes of trying just for an easy life and because I hate seeing her upset. But then my nipple comes out all compressed after a feed which I know can only lead to trouble!

I know these are small problems compared to what some people suffer, but coupled with sleep deprivation they are really getting me down! Feel a bit demoralised today too after a week of trying so hard to get the latch right and finding out I haven't managed.

Any words of wisdom? Thank you.

caz whereabouts are you? can you get to a baby cafe or similar? or can you get a breastfeeding counsellor to come out to you?
when I was having probs with ds1 I had tons of helpful advice from people online, but I found I really needed someone to watch me and tell me where I was going wrong to get the positioning right

have a look on here for baby cafes near you

sorry haven't read all the replies so sorry if repeating.
pain shooting into armpit is classic for ductal thrush
personally i wouldn't buy fluconazole over the counter as its not licenced - its safe but responsibility needs to be taken by prescribing doctor so not something you should buy
the Gp you saw was clearly crap and didn't know her stuff. you should go and see a different one. there are loads of good gps out there so you don't need to put up with this. to be fair there is a bit of a debate on the medical community about nipple thrush
and how to treat it, and its not taught at medical school as it doesn't fall into a specialty, and Health visitors usually deal with BF issues. but BF is soooo important that you should perservere until you are helped. often there are no signs in the baby (and your nipple can look normal as well) but you do def need to treat baby as well to stop reinfection.

check out this link:
www.wiltshirepct.nhs.uk/MaternityServices/MaternityLeaflets/25_Thrush%20and%20breastfe eding.pdf

also if you are near a baby cafe they are excellent and will help you out

www.thebabycafe.org/L/BC_Nearest.php

but they are only once a week and you need to be sorted out before this.

keep going well done and good luck!

oo fingerwoman we were writing the same thign at the same time - the baby cafes are amazing aren't they?

caz - in answer to your question - i found that daktarin for me and baby didn't work and needed fluconazole but you need to carry on with the daktarin as well. also carry on for about a week with it after the fluconazole has finished so you don't get reinfected. that link also has good advice from wiltshire pct.
a great book about breastfeeding is what to expect when you're breastfeeding and what to do if you can't by clare byam cook - they sell it in waterstones and good bookshops. she dispenses with nipple to nose theory and is much more matter of fact. i now buy this book for all pregnant friends

caz gosh you are being overwhelmed with advice. agree, face to face is absolutely the best you can get.

and sorry sarahanna but clare byam cook is not a very good source.

really why do you think that, am intrigued

Caz, only just seen this thread - I got thrush regularly whilst breasfeeding both my boys - I treated with Daktarin first time but then saw a different GP who prescribed a canesten once capsule, (oral !)
When I got thrush a second time at a weekend without access to a doctor Dh went and bought one over the counter at Tesco I saw the doctor on the monday and she had no issue with my actions.

Good lcuk - you sound like you are doing really well,.... Listen to your heart you know what is the right thing for your baby.

sh here is a rather rambly thread.

caz i have been recalling my experience, had nerve damage and it hurt in the most peculiar places, shoulder blades and all around. so what they are saying isn't that wild.

interesting thread fishie- i think she makes some very helpful, sensible points and it has certainly helped a lot of people i know to bf successfully. one of my nct group saw her when she was really struggling, and says she was worth her wait in gold. however as with all books you take some bits from it and not others. i also know of breastfeeding counsellors who know and rate her! but agree - not a forum for discussion here - didn't realise there were such widely differing opinions on her - so will keep my mouth shut about her on here from now on as thats not helping you Caz.

hope everything is getting better and that you have managed to see someone who can help you. thrush is very common and it sounds like that, whereas there are rarer things such as nerve damage and also a sort of raynauds disease of the nipple - but agree you really need to see an expert rather than that Gp who won't give you the time of day. it made me so angry reading how she was towards you.
best of luck

weight not wait! its 1am!

Thank you again for all your advice and support, I will look at all these links.

DD has dropped a little weight so trying to feed her up, it is very painful but at least I'm getting lots of practice at improving my latch!

No baby cafe near me but I go to my local BFN group every week - they have been great and a counsellor came out to see me a couple of weeks ago.

They still reckon all the problems stem from my latch and positioning...which makes me feel a bit . I've been in so much pain, got an infection maybe, and DD not getting a proper feed, all due to the fact that I can't do it right.... Trying not to get down about it, and instead of dreading every feed trying to see it as an opportunity to practise...

That thread was interesting fishie, and reminded me of the midwive grabbing my boob and shoving it in dd's mouth at 3am in the hospital...(shudder). Can I ask how you got the nerve damage sorted out?

BFN advice has just been that I need to work on DDs latch - apparently I am holding her correctly etc - but don't see how I can MAKE her know how to latch on properly?!! Dreamt last night that she sat up in my lap and said "oh for gods sake can you STILL not do this properly?!"

oh caz it is so hard not to get down about it, especially when you get to the horrible point of dreading feeds because it hurts so much.
Is there any chance you can get a different counsellor to see you? sometimes it just needs a different perspective, and people pick up lots of different hints and tips, so what one person knows another might not. It's worth a try anyway.

did you end up getting her checked for tongue tie? I can't remember, sorry if you already answered that one on here. it's pretty common and definitely worth looking into if you haven't already

caz10 hang on in there, you are doing such a fab job.There IS loads of advice because no baby is the same and no set of boobs are the same!!!! Your dd is really lucky you are making such an effort, well done.

caz10 hang on in there, you are doing such a fab job.There IS loads of advice because no baby is the same and no set of boobs are the same!!!! Your dd is really lucky you are making such an effort, well done.

oh caz i remember how bloody frustrating (literally bloody too sometimes) and how i would quite dread evening cluster feeding. nice glass of wine helps also change of position (to rugby ball/underarm) means that stress isn't being put on the same part all the time.

for me, three small improvements happened:

1. i got better at latching ds on
2. he got better at latching on
3. he grew a bit so his mouth was a little bigger.

and it all improved a lot.

he was a bit thin at one stage but it was all fine in the end and i survived without supplementing. but he never has got the gaping thing, even now at 2.9.

how you doing today caz, what symptoms have you got at the mo?

Thank you for all your kind words.

Things are getting much much better as far as pain goes - really seeing an improvement whether it's the cream or the improved latch I don't know.

However she is now apparently failing to thrive, I am so so - have started a new thread and once again mumsnetters talk more sense than all the HVs in the world...thank you so much.

oh caz I haven't seen your other thread, though having no experience with FTT I probably wouldnb't be able to say much of use.
other than that I think they attach that label far too quickly! keep up the good work, feed as much as you possibly can and get her gaining again

have you considered expressing at all between feeds to help boost your supply?

caz

please keep smiling. My tiny dd (well documented on m'net) had "failure to thrive" written on a sample bottle label by a paediatrician last week. First time I actually saw the phrase in relation to my darling baby. No-one has dared use the phrase in my presence and the paed didn't mention it to me - just wrote it on the bottle label.

It made me so cross.

My unthriving baby has learned how to eat her own toes this week, and is clearly a child genius, as she also developed language skills and can now say "da, ba, ga, ma and rrrrra"

and she finds it amusing to blow raspberries on my nipples.

she is funny, and happy, and strong, and feisty, and developing and growing (longer) and flourishing.

Failure to thrive?
Crapola.

Trust your instincts and have faith in yourself. You are doing superbly well.

hooray! thanks mommalove!