Support in postnatal wards

[hunkermunker]

Just thought I'd see if something constructive could come out of the last few days conversations about breast and bottle feeding.

I have the opportunity to talk to someone who can make a difference to breastfeeding support at the hospital where I had DS soon. What should I say to her? I'm not sure that anything I say will actually make a difference, but I figured it'd be nice to have a range of opinions. And where better than MN to find those, eh?!

totally agree with the no boob grabbing - I seemed to be the personal challange of each midwife and all they would do is grab my boob shove it in dd mouth and say "there you go then can you feel the difference?" when I replied no they said "give it a chance girl". The advice that I got from each one was so inconsistent with the previous one that I was so confused and emotional that I didn't know which way to turn. DH complained to the ward sister but was told that breastfeeding is not something that everyone can do maybe formula is the way
I left hospital and dd did not feed for 6 days - thank god for the sensible community midwife who suggested expressing as I was leaking everywhere and dd took it from a bottle - she still won't take the breast but at least she is feeding.

hunkermunker- when I had dd I lost a lot of blood and was quite poorly but determined to bfeed. Some of the mwives had me in tears telling me that I couldn't because I'd lost too much blood and that dd was starving- that's why she wasn't sleeping. They manhandled her away from me- used emotional blackmail to get me to let them give her formula (and then put on my notes- mother requested formula- which I bloody well didn't request- I agreed to them giving her a bottle at 3 in the morning and collapsed in floods of tears watching them do it.)
I insisted on carrying on and am still bfing at 9 1/2 months BUT it was the bfing counsellor and my district mwife who really helped me through it. The ones in the hospital said my latch was good yet I still had bleeding nipples.
I think a bfing counsellor can make a massive difference. 10 years ago (at 24) I wouldn't have had the confidence to fight to carry on feeding when the hospital mwives were telling me off for starving my dd. ( I wasn't- the milk was a couple of days late coming in) but I still had colostrum (sp)
A breastfeeding counsellor at every hospital would be lovely and would take some of the pressure off the midwives
Had to stay in hospital because I was poorly and then dd had jaundice but was let out after a week-

sideline, but... beansprout (or anyone else for that matter), i had mastitis too. does mastitis really mean you're doing something wrong? i've never heard that before.

baked - mastitis can be (but is not always) the result of a blocked duct/ducts, which in turn can be ( but is not always) the result of the milk not being removed effectively or evenly, which can be (but is not always!) related to attachment of the baby on the breast, and/or infrequent feeding.

beansprout - your mastitis may have been caused by something else, and may not be the result of 'doing sometning wrong'.

HTH

I would like to add a positive note to this thread if i may. When i had DS, i chose to breastfeed and was adamant from mid pregnancy that this was what i was going to do. In hospital initially i felt abandoned after bieng shown a few times (and i had read extensively on the technique also during pregnancy). Still not knowning if i was doing it correctly. Eventually i was so concerned about my babys blood sugar and could smell ketones on his breath, that i then i asked for help. From then on they were fantastic.
When i went home i attended breastfeeding support groups which are run at my local health centre. These were of immence help and very supportive.My community midwife was also very knowledgable and offered sound advice on every visit.
I was feeding every hour to hour and a half day and night for about 12 weeks as i recall. I persevered until Ds was 6 months old, even then they were very supportive and helpful offering advice on how to ween from the breast. from some of your stories i feel incredibly lucky to have had this brilliant group of people around me when i needed them.
There should be more of them available to all who need them.

DS was a month early and we were on transitional care for a week. I tried my best to breast feed but I struggled but wouldn't give up. The midwives on the ward insisted on 'topping him up' with a bottle after every breast feed. At the time I was relieved, I was very tired and emotional. This wasn't actually helping as my milk wasn't then coming in and DS only had to suck a short time each side then was given a bottle, which to him was an easier option. When we eventually got home I continued to try and breast feed, but still having to 'top up'. I didn't know any different. Another new mum from my antenatal class mentioned that the top up could be the problem. I stopped trying to top up and ended up with DS on breast for an hour and half every two hours. Exhausted, very upset and feeling defeated I stopped breast feeding at 6 weeks. It still upsets me now and he's 11 months. Support would have been helpful as the instruction mannual that came with DS was crap . Sorry to go on.

just to add another vote for "no groping"

I am absolutely shocked that midwives told you to top up, Oooggs. How can they have sabotaged you so effectively? How old were these midwives, where were they trained, did they look particularly malicious? No midwife could possibly be so thoroughly ignorant, surely? Have you complained about this? I would. (I did, actually!)

This is where I feel very strongly that if midwives are really so ignorant, they shouldn't be allowed near breastfeeding mothers. Unfortunately, there aren't that many BF counsellors, so if the NHS can't pay for those, they should be training midwives about BF - which judging by so many of our experiences, isn't happening atm.

Pixiefish - snap! Are you me? I was also absolutely distraught when my tiny newborn was literally taken away from me and given formula. I cried and cried and cried. I was just like you - had colostrum, milk was a little late poss due to blood loss after c-section for placenta praevia and I was told my baby was 'starving' too! Where were you?

north wales aloha- i only wish that my community mwife and bfeeding counsellor (hv who used to be a mwife) had been in the hospital. I still feel like shit that she was given 3 bottles of formula in the hospital and it really makes me want to swear that they wrote on my notes- mother requested it- did i f@@@- they blackmailed me into giving consent.

Then after taking her off me on another night - just for a couple of hours so that i could sleep- the same midwife woke me up to tell me that a friend was on the ward phone!!!!! then when i was crying with my friend she told me off for being on the ward phone and that my friend should phone the premium rate bedside phone- duh- why wake me up!!!!

These are the same staff who let a pupil from school in to see me- thought they had security on baby wards these days- I tell you I was so annoyed- with the kids mother and with the staff-

Thanks for the support Caligula - midwives ranged from early 20's to late 50's. They seemed to want to do anything for an easy life. I didn't complain, I couldn't, had the baby blues for a while after and was confused. I hadn't heard of BF councillors until now, a bit late. DS has thrived and has converted now to cows milk. It still bothers me and next time, if I am lucky enough to have a second, I will be more aware.

I think they put that on my notes too Pixiefish. Grrrr!

I was discharged from a post natal ward on Sunday, and as I said on the other thread it was not a nice experience. What should be the policy on top up after breast feeding? My DS was jaundiced and they were keen to know how much he was having so I expressed. I was told he would have to have top ups on top of what he was having off my breast, so I used my expressed milk to give to him as luckily I had enough! This obviously meant him taking from the bottle, and I was told that he would only reject the breast if I didn't offer that to him first. I did do a few feeds of just EBM, as I was beginning to get desperate to get him well and home. But he still seems to be taking off of me reasonably well. Am I just (so far) lucky? And should there of been no reason for him to of had EBM at all as top ups?

Also as I mentioned on the other thread, it really dosen't seem right to me that formula is given out so willingly as yet other basic supplies are not. My baby ended up spending hours in a dirty nappy as no-one was able to get in to visit me (one set of parents leaving, another set of parents arriving and an hour bus journey each way mean't DP couldn't get there any quicker), and the hospital were not able to supply them. The stay in hospital was not expected, I was not provided with anything to wash DS with either. He went from thursday evening to sunday evening without a bath, having been slowly baking under those lights and bless his little heart, stinking! When I told the midwifes they told me not to be so silly, of course he didn't smell! Well the doctors didn't agree! Sorry as you can probably tell I am really quite bitter from the experience!

Hi Flossam, congratulations!
If your DS is taking milk from the breast well now, I would take it as a good sign . IMO I don't think that needing to see how much milk a baby is taking a valid reason for bottles. First breastfeeds only tend to be mls anyway! If you were feeding formula it may be a different matter, I'm afraid I don't know. Maybe a breastfeeding support session would have been more constructive - that way they could have satisfied themselves that your DS was able to take what he needed effectively without the rigmarole of bottles and expressing! The value of breastmilk isn't really determined by quantity anyway, though, it sounds like you were able to express effectively so no problems there! A baby's feeding at the breast will let a ladies body know how much to produce, it's how your body knows what amount to provide. Bearing that in mind it's good that your little one is establishing breastfeeding and over time your supply should adjust to meet his needs .
As for the nappy thing !

In a total fantasy NHS
Private rooms
Double (or at least wider) beds and proper pillows in maternity wards so that you can feed comfortably in bed, and sleep with the baby in the bed without fearing you are both going to fall out.
Midwives who offer to take your baby if they are unsettleable and just give you a break so that you are less exhauasted.
Midwives who rationally discuss why not to give a bottle with a paranoid first time mum who is convinced that her baby is creaming because of hunger.

I actually found that the only bf support I got was from the nightime midwives, because the day shift just did not have the time to spend helping women with bf (or bottlefeeding babies)

The midwifes at my hospital where fantastic. I couln't move at all for 2 nights after dd's birth, so they came everytime I rang, within seconds, and moved me & dd to help me bf. They even built elaborate pillow construction to put dd on for lying down feeding. They were all full of statistics on bfing and the benefits etc, adn clucked excited at dd's feeding. The only bad moment was when a nursery nurse tried to shove dds face into my boob (I had to actually shout at her to stop and she yelled back). Personally I loved every midwife I met and wanted to take them all home.