Bfing is ruining my marriage (v long, sorry)

[Rockymarriage]

Obviously I've name changed but you'll probably all know who I am, it's just for the record really.

I've been bfing dd for 6 months. It's not been easy. There have been, and still are occasions where DD won't feed from the breast for some reason and we have had to resort to ebm. But now I am mostly enjoying it. We fed in the bath for the first time yesterday and omg she looked so blissed out her eye we rolling into the back of her head But sometimes, yeah, I still get frustrated, occasionally it's a chore, like changing her nappy, just another mundane thing in my day. And yes, sometimes I get annoyed because she won't just get on with it and I need to be doing something else. Is that normal?

Anyway last night with DH we were talking about when I will stop and I said I don't know, and he started saying he doesn't want her being fed when she's 5 and it escalated in to a huge fight where his arguments were

-breastfeeding is dominating our life - it's who we are and all we do
-is it really the best thing for her? Does she really enjoy it? If so why would she refuse to feed sometimes?
-am I really enjoying it? Why do I get so frustrated then when she won't feed
-he hates seeing us both getting stressed over her not feeding sometime
-he doesn't have any choice in the matter, he feels like an outsider, he also wants to have a say in when we stop
-he keeps talking about "getting abck to normal" after DD
-and...this is where is all got nasty, my body seems out of bounds while I'm bfing

My counter arguments were:
-yes occasionally we have problems where she won't bf, and it really stresses me out because I want to succeed at this I and I feel like I should be able to feed my baby whenever she needs it
-yes, sometimes I get frustrated, but there are going to be so many aspects where I am going to get frustrated, not just bfing, it's a human emotion, I can't help it. I don't suddenly become mother Theresa now I have a baby
-bfing is my decision, no he doesn't have much say in it. That's the perk I get for carry her around for night months and going through all that fucking pain to bring her into the world, I don't know when I want to stop, can't I just see how it goes now I am actually enjoying it
-It may seem like I make more of the decisions with DD (like choosing to BLW) but they affect me more than him as he workd full time and I am on mat leave
-And life doesn't "go back to normal" you get a new normality, and yes things are hard at the moment, but we are both still adjusting to having a baby, but he thinks it should be better now
-The sex this, well this is probably my fault as I used bfing in defence of why we haven't properly had sex yet, personal space issues etc. Not to mention it fucking hurts at the moment! But I'm sure bfing is only part f it, and well if he'd been torn up down below, restitched so that it hurt everytime you tried to have sex and had your tummy blown up and shrunken like a wrinkly shrivelled balloon how much would he want to have sex.

Anyway, it got a bit worse after that, more than I want to divulge (not violent or anything, just hurtful). I threatened to go the shop and get formula if that's what he wanted but it would break my heart. And well, we didn't really resolve it, it seemed to have gone too far by then and he didn't want to talk about it any further. I don't know what to do, I can't say the right thing, am I a terrible person. Is it normal for bfing to still be hard sometimes after 6 months? Am I a terrible person for carrying on in spite of this? DH thinks DD doesn't have a choice in bfing, it's forced upon her and maybe she isn't happy doing it and what does she get out of it?

The things is, I've really come to realise I feel v passionately about bfing, and even when I stop I think I will. I want to be involved in making it better for people. I haven't felt this fired up about anything in a long time. Am I getting too hung up on it?

Thank you if you have read this far. I want my marriage to be better, I want to know that it's normal to have hit a rocky patch even after 6 months, and that it will get better, and how?

You should all know too that DH is NOT pressuring me into having sex and never would do, he is just feeling "unwanted".

In fact the bit where is got nasty was in my anger and frustration I stripped all my clothes of and said "there - is that what you want?!"

And he cried, and was furious and upset that I would think so lowly of him, I don't, I didn't for one minute think that was what he wanted. I don't know why I did it. To make a pint maybe? Anyway it was horrid and it horrified him.

I don't think either of us is to blame here, we are both just struggling to come to terms with having a baby in our lives. I just need a way to move forward, and I guess I posted it here because I was wondering if I was being too bloody minded about the bfing and if I should give it up to make things better.

Oh iswym BB!

Rocky I don't think you're being bloody minded about the bfing. It's just that while we still live in a society where bfing is not the culturally normal thing to do, it's still seen as a bit weird and is easy to blame for anything that goes wrong.

Imagine if you gave up bfing and still felt the same towards your dh and on top of that had the resentment at giving up bfing? It would not make things any better.

A baby is a huge thing in a relationship and even now (eight and a half months on) things aren't as they were between dh and I, although they've improved a lot. Sometimes it just takes time.

Although I do think some intimacy, even if not sex, would help your dh feel loved again.

This is about sex and imtimacy, I agree, and nothing to do with the way you get milk into your baby.

I acually don't think there's a lot wrong with having sex when you don't feel like it at all....blimey, it's called doing something for someone 'cos you love them and think their needs are important and you value their happiness. However, if it's painful, then that's a different matter. Lots of lube - that 'Play' stuff is nice for massage, too - can help, but if it's scary to think of actual penetration, then skip the penetrative stuff and enjoy each other with (ahem) other parts of your anatomy.

If you are not ready to 'receive' sexually, then how about taking an hour when you know dd will be asleep and offering to go to bed (no clothes) to massage and touch and stimulate him in a loving and sensual way, doing the things you know he likes, and bringing him to orgasm how he likes without penetration - because you love him, you value his needs, and he is a great dad at the bottom of it all? Let him know you're not comfortable about penetration but everything else you know you both like is on the cards.

Get the painful penetration thing checked out by the doc.

Oh, and yes, what you are going through is normal and very common.

Lots of excellent advice here. I can also see me and DH in this!

Re: sex, I really think you should try initiating it yourself, and tryin to do so regularly. I am often surprised at how many rows about a huge range of things essentially come down to sex: it's an important sign to your DH that he is loved and appreciated, far more sp than for women (in my limited experience. No, you shouldn't feel pressured into it, but just thinking about it more might sow you some opportunities. You may find youare taking more control of that side of things for a while as your DH gets his confidence back.

NOT to say that you haven't been doing the right thing, just sounds lke your DHs self-esteem has takrn a bashing (fatherhood does this, it is tough for dads which isn't often acknowledged) and you cd reaaly help here

Sorrt for typing: 1-hnded while feeding DS!

DH used to take DC's off me after the last feed of the day and it was always his 'job' to take them upstairs and put them to bed, (it still is!). It really helped him to bond with them and made BFing not all about me.
Sound as if the sex may need 'working' at initially but I'm sure you'll both feel better with an increase in intimacy. Your breasts may feel out of bounds but hopefully the rest of you shouldn't.
All the best.

to clarify my last point, yes having a baby completely changes a woman's life, physicaly emotionaly and practically. But it also changes a man's and these are changes he has no control over. He sees you going through pain in laboutr can do sod all. Establshing bfing, often painful, hard work - can do v little. And while it's mostly about the baby after the birth, there is suppor there for mums health visitors, mws, bf counsellers, postnatal groups, mother and baby groups, friends, family. What is there for the father? Very little, Noone asks him how he is feeling, how he is coping. Usually decisikons on routines etc are made by themother (for obv reasons) and if he is a good chap and a supportive father he adjusts. And he will and he is proabablya fantastic dad but he needs love and attention and support and time to rant as well.

still thinking out loud - this shouldn't be all your job as well - does he have friends/family to offload to?

thank effie, no, he's one of these men who "doesn't like to ask for help"!

consequently he doesn't know to what extent this is just "normal" post-baby stuff because he doesn't talk to other people about it.

Most of this (although have only skimmed through what others have written in some cases) good advice here. You are making sure you and DH have closeness in other ways instead though aren't you? Seems a silly thing to ask but DH and i have been together so long that our romance/closeness is a bit lacking , but it really helps us to cuddle up (even only for a short while) or some, er, (getting embarrassed now) foreplay-esque activities when the kids are in bed...just so even if we're too knackered to do anything else, we still remember we're a couple...
I know absolutely nowt about bf though, so can't help there.

having said that, it won't be the worst thing on earth after six months if you WANT to stop, but it is your decision not your husband's. Is it worth all this hassle?

Will you have less issues if you stop? or more, will you be resentful if forced to stop?

As once you stop , thats usually it. I doubt you will tranform into a sex goddess just because you stop breastfeeding, if you are very sore and have other problems, could you talk to your doctor about the pain?

the first year can be difficult with a baby but it can get better but you have to communicate and compromise - that means he gives somthing too, what will he do to make things better? compromise does not mean you do everything he wants and suffer and he gives nothing.

I think not wanting sex when b/feeding full time is very natural - nature delays the onset of periods while we are still b/feeding as our bodies are already busy enough without conceiving again. In our society, we have turned sex into something quite unrelated to the natural functions of our bodies but, aside from being tired etc your body is just not supposed to want sex at this point in time!!! You will again but it's just how it is at the moment. Don't ever do something you just don't want to do. It's counterproductive and potentially damaging. You have been through pregnancy, birth and now b/feeding. If dh has to sort himself out for a bit, then so be it!!

Also, I know that after hours and hours and hours of b/feeding ds I JUST WANTED SOME TIME TO MYSELF instead of feeling that my body was just catering for one person and then another!! If dh wanted to rub my shoulders, back etc, that was great but I just did not have the capacity to do anything else. Again, that changed but we both just accepted that's how it was for a while.

thanks for all the advice so far. i will try & make a bit more of an effort in the intimacy stakes and hope that will keep dh quiet on the bfing front. i can only hope that as we go on bfing for longer it will seem normal to dh and he won't pressurise me into giving up because he thinks it's weird.

Think you have had some great advice here but one thing I would add that IME breastfeeding was easier both times after 5-6 months.
My periods returned after 6 and 7 months respectively and I think for me this was when my hormones settled back down and sex felt more of a possibility.
B-feeding affects your hormones and I found sex was more comfortable after both births after the 6 month mark (both with and without second degree tear).
Agree with another poster about letting your DH help with feeding your DD solid food so he feels he has a part to play in this respect.

Really hope things improve for you all, it IS hard balancing the needs of a young baby with your marriage, think we can all relate to that, more than most of us are likely to admit.

This is probably an unpopular view on here but you say you've come to feel passionately about bf. That is absolutely great but it's a new passion in your life (which is actually about your passion for your baby) which cannot really involve him. OK you can express now and again to let him get involved but basically this is all about you and the baby.

That's not a bad thing, at all, but just saying it's worth stepping back sometimes. If you really identify your parenting and your worth as a mother with your bf, it's bound to be something that is about you alone and not about you as a couple (unless he is in some sort of best-supporting role as a father where his job is just to let you do your thing which sounds like it's not enough for him). I'm speculating that he wants an "in" on you and your DD.

My humble opinion is that creating a family is about much more than bfing - it's wonderful that you are doing it and want to carry on but I personally would hesitate to identify myself as a mother with the fact that I bf-ed.

Anyway, yes of course you should carry on as long as you want and not go and get formula but I wouldn't make this about bf. Your parenting goes way beyond this and will do over the years to come.

At some point I imagine you'll go back to work and as your DD starts to wean, bf will become less of an issue in your life anyway (that's what I found). You'll still do it but by the time she's one it's not such a big deal as it is now. Just basing that on my experience - I bfed till 8 mo but with solids, my dd became much less interested in milk generally and I felt ok about letting it go. Not advising that, obviously. Just saying that the heightened feelings you have now and the passion you have now are about the stage you are at now and may not seem so big in six months or a year..

That's just a big general waffle and no specific advice. But I would see your relationship with your dd (and dh) in wider terms than just bf (iyswim). It might help you both feel less entrenched in your positions.

a child needs a father, and a happy family more than it needs breastmilk.
i am a very big advocate of breastfeeding. i always find it very very sad when newborns are given a bottle of formul, because i see it as second best. actually, no fourth, because second best would be a ebm, thrid best wet nurse etc

but a child needs a father. and if it is affecting your marriage then you need to stop. she has had the benefits of breastfeeding. now you need to allow her the benefits of a loving father, and a happy parenting group.

Message withdrawn

"Rocky, would your dh be prepared to read a book or some information about the benefits of breastfeeding to your dd?

What about this for starters?

"http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/10/061027184200.htm

If that isn't persuasive I don't know what is!

HI RM, Hope you're feeling a little better this evening. Sounds like you and DH are great people and want what is best for your family so I think you need to sit down and have a chat, tell him exactly how you're feeling. Remember to listen to how he's feeling though and try and reassure him. I'm the worlds worst for not really saying what's troubling me until an argument excalates and then I don't listen to my DH communication is key (cliche I know but true) I'm still working on it!

some v wise advice on here
my dh was similar and so was I. I disagree with pukkapatch over stopping bf but because it would have been the worst thing for my relationship with dh to have stopped bf even though a lot of what was going on was being blamed on my bf. i would have permanently held a grudge i think and there is no going back and changing things. obv your relationship/way of reacting to things may be different to mine.
honestly honestly? you might well see huge returns on a bit of intimacy with your dh, not even nec sexual, starting with cuddles/massages, so he feels he still holds a special place in your heart [soppy]

and again, a personal thing, I felt much better once I accepted dh was never going to be especially won round by any argument about how bm was better etc etc and just chilled and did my thing without expecting any positive feedback/support. that prob sounds snippy but I mean it genuinely, i had to learn to just go my own way confidently and bf for as long as i and my ds were happy with it and not get wound up by negativity. (this last bit is not nec relevant to you guys, just a reflection)

I've read most of the posts and agree with ggg.

I think the first time you have sex it may feel like duty but you need to get it over and done with anyway even if it's to find out you can't because it hurts - in which caase drs pronto. I think the fear of it all being different to before is often there and needs to be overcome.

You also need to work on the intimacy, if you dont want dh pawing your boobs wear a bra and make sure it stays on.

I also think your experiences are quite common.

I haven't read all of the thread, but your op sounded so like me that I wanted to share my solution. We were exactly where you were on several occasions, and I came to Mumsnet for support too. Then I showed dh the thread and all the comments and it really helped. He said he hadn't realised I felt so strongly and was so determined (no idea how, since I'd banged on about it non-stop!) and that he wouldn't interfere any more. This was after lots of arguing about it.
He did leave it for a long while, in fact ds is now 2 and down to 2 feeds morning and night. I can't say that dh is completely harmonious about it but he can see my plan for stopping and is happy that I am trying to (my way). Maybe showing him this thread would help you too?
I hope it does.
Still haven't found my libido though....anyone seen it? [hmmm]

Rockymarriage,

I am the father of a ten-month old boy who is the joy of my life. My wife is still breast-feeding him and I am 100% behind her. It is her right as a mother and she earned it like you carrying him around for 9 months. I am SO INCREDIBLY PROUD OF HER as it's been a hard slog for her at times. Just because it isn't always easy doesn't mean it's not working or worth it. Your husband sounds very selfish and unsupportive - does he have a clue about the benefits of breastfeeding for you and your baby? He should be proud of you, not giving you such a hard time for doing something so good. I just want you to know that another bloke out there feels quite differently. Good luck, I hope he can be a real man and put his wife and baby before his own needs for a short time.

arsenaldad, you sounds like a wonderful supportive DH and your DW is very lucky to have your understanding and help.

I think Rockymarriages DH also has her best intentions in his heart. Unfortunately I think it's got a little lost in the emotions and highs and lows of Bf'ing. I used to complain about feeling like I was in shackles when I was bfing because sometimes I needed a little time to myself and I was sick of never getting any 'time off' but all DH heard was that BF'ing was a problem and hence you're in a situation like RM. I think men are keen to try and 'fix' a problem and sometimes women just want to get it off their chest. Despite getting very fed up bf'ing, stopping was very emotional too. I felt very guilty about giving DD formula (I creid when I gave her her first ff, she was 10 months so i did a reasonable innings) and very guilty about having 'time off'. Which was what I'd wanted in the first place. I don't think it would be fair to expect my DH to understand that level of emotion. It's not something he can relate to. I didn't exactly explain myself either so all DH saw was a very distressed wife.

arsenal dad I really appreciate the male perspective and I am so pleased that you are supporting your dw. But gingerninja has completely hit the nail on the head, maybe there is a small part of him being selfish, thinking about his needs, but for the most part it's that he wants things to be easy for all of us. i want to bf but i also want to be able to complain about it too but GN is right he sees it as a problem to fix. he just hears the bad stuff.

he also is perfectly aware of all the benefits of bfing, but he just believes stopping and switching to formula would be easier.

I really appreciate everyone's support and advice on this thread. I will make an effort to be more tactile and pay more attention to dh. he has said he is going to be more supportive about the bfing. I think the new year will be a new start for us