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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

Can you help Nbg breast feed for the first time please!!!!!

27 replies

Nbgdoesnthaveachristmasname · 20/12/2007 15:19

So many questions, so little time.

Ok, ds2 is now 2 weeks old and I have been mainly bottle feeding him and hand expressing a small amount.
Yesterday I bought a manual pump (avent isis) and expressed 4oz, 2 oz in 2 different times of the day.
I was quite pleased at this because currently he is taking 4oz bottles so the EBM replaced a formula feed, if that makes sense.

Now my concern is that I tried to express again yesterday evening and I wasnt getting very much off at all and it was quite painful. It felt like it was really pulling my nipples and I had to stop.

So my first question is if I just express twice a day and get off 4oz like yesterday, will this be enough to keep my supply up?

Secondly, since I have been expressing, ds has been nuzzling into the breast where as before this he wasnt.
So I tried him on the breast again today and I actually managed to latch him on (big deal for me as I havent been able to do this with my other 2 children) but he just lays there and doesnt suck.
When the midwife has latched him on he has done the same or just gone to sleep.
Why is this and how can I get him to feed?
I guess I should be grateful as before he was thrashing his head about and was very cross when I tried to BF him but I would love to give it a proper go if I can latch him on.

So if anyone can help me, I would very much appreciate it!

OP posts:
merryTissmas · 20/12/2007 15:25

have you tried squeezing a little bit of milk out before latching him on? I'm guessing he needs to learn that it is possible to get milk out by sucking....

As for the expressing, it's not as effective at stimulating milk production as sucking, but short term, it will work. BUT the best time to express is the morning when prolactin levels are higher. When you expressed last night, did you get a "let down"?

5goldrings4MONKEYBIRDs · 20/12/2007 15:26

NBG, you need expert advice I reckon so call one of the helplines but in meantime, I guess if you keep just letting him latch on as much as possible, keep him skin to skin with you (clothes off inside your top) as much as possible... I bet he just hasn't yet learnt to associate the very comforting sucking on your breast with a milk supply yet. but if you give him enough opportunities to do that, he will gradually I think...

Go for it - its sounds like a brilliant idea anyway and keep posting for more advice/help if you need to...

FioFio · 20/12/2007 15:28

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kiskidee · 20/12/2007 15:29

try taking him into the bath. it is called rebirthing and many times babies are keen to feed in the bath. also second calling helplines. one to one support is better for this sort of thing.

FioFio · 20/12/2007 15:30

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merryTissmas · 20/12/2007 15:30

There's definitely an "art" to expressing, and you need to work out what suits you....you need to be relaxed and warm, and not worried about being interrupted! Some people like to sit and look at a photo of their baby; I found the opposite, I preferred to empty my mind, so I'd sit at the computer in the wee small hours and browse the internet. A bit of gentle nipple twiddling stimulated the let down for me, then when it had happened, start pumping, gently at first, then more regularly. The milk slows down after a while, then I'd swap sides, then I'd go back to the first side, and could often get a second let down.

Can you contact a bf counsellor to have a look at ds's latch, and see if it can be improved?

camillathechicken · 20/12/2007 15:31

if he has been on the bottle more than the breast then it might take a lot more perserverance to get him to take to the breast. agree with the rebirthing idea, and as much skin to skin with him as you can.....

also look at www.kellymom.com

ally90 · 20/12/2007 15:32

Hi NBQ

Only got 1 dd but am still bf at 20 mths. (all my experience!)

Morning is best time to express, fuller boobs. I've been told they are never empty, only very drained (if baby has been feeding alot). Its also a psychological thing, think of your baby feeding, or get in shower to relax or warm flannels on boobs. Whatever works. I just thought of how full my boobs were (like rocks!) and that did it for me. Oh and I hand expressed, I felt like I was pulling nips off with the hand pump. Its much gentler.

Obviously I'm no expert, but, I was told that bottle feeding and breast feeding require different sucking skills. Sounds like he doesn't know how to suck on breast. I think I heard somewhere that if you pop your finger in their mouth and touch the roof of the mouth that helps them learn how to suck. But I could be waaaaayyyy off there...

BTW 4 oz in one day...way to go! I got 2 oz a day if I was lucky. Another lady I know could get 8 oz without thinking twice?!?!

Good luck with that your doing...would love to know if you can get him to latch on

Original poster
Nbgdoesnthaveachristmasname · 20/12/2007 15:35

Oh thank you all for the replies.

When I think about expressing last night, I wasnt exactly warm so that may have had something to do with it.

As for him latching, I had mentioned to my MW and HV about him sucking as when he takes a bottle, he doesnt always suck on that properly and its like he is chomping on the end of the teat and then he gets upset????

I could try him in the bath tonight as the milk comes out like a bursting hose pipe in there

Fio, Ethan James, 8lb 1oz, 8 days late, 2 hour labour at home

OP posts:
NappiesGaloriouslyFestive · 20/12/2007 15:37

i have a copy of the womanly art of breastfeeding i got in case of problems... i am not using it, would you like a borrow? should have lots of info for you in there.

i also heartily recommend the helplines. there are quite a few, and i would keep trying and ringing around till you feel youve gotten the help YOU need. dont be afraid to pester and pester if needed, none of them will mind one bit. they are also 24h, and middle of night can often be an isolated place.

congratulations btw!

katwith3wisemen · 20/12/2007 15:41

Expressing is really really hard work in my opinion, so if you've managed to get 2 mls you've done fantastically well.

I think its a skill that you both have to learn, it doesnt come naturally to most of us, but when it comes together (like it sounds as though it is) its the best thing in the world.

Take some time to chill out with your LO and hopefully someone will be along soon who can help a bit more than I can.

Original poster
Nbgdoesnthaveachristmasname · 20/12/2007 15:42

Thank you nappies.
I think I'll give the helplines a call first and see if they can offer some advice but if I dont get any joy I may call on you to borrow it thank you

My HV has said if I call her when he is ready for a feed, she will come round and try and help but I'm not exactly sure what she can do to get him to feed.

OP posts:
Original poster
Nbgdoesnthaveachristmasname · 20/12/2007 15:43

You've made me feel better saying I've done well with the amount I've expressed.

I thought it was a measly amount yesterday!

OP posts:
walkinginawinterBundleland · 20/12/2007 15:43

la leche people helped me enormously - mostly on the phone - when i had problems with latch esp with dd1. please do persist, it's wonderful once it's all fixed, xxx

walkinginawinterBundleland · 20/12/2007 15:44

and oh yes sirreeeee, those are brilliant amounts to express!

ally90 · 20/12/2007 15:44

Found it

  • Stimulate sucking activity using your clean little finger. After washing your hands, place the nail side of your little finger against the baby's tongue and stimulate her palate with the fleshy part of your finger. After your baby starts sucking, remove your finger and offer your breast.

Knew I wasn't imagining it!

Original poster
Nbgdoesnthaveachristmasname · 20/12/2007 15:45

...

OP posts:
Original poster
Nbgdoesnthaveachristmasname · 20/12/2007 15:46

Right I shall give that a go ally. Thank you

OP posts:
NappiesGaloriouslyFestive · 20/12/2007 15:50

well, if you decide youd like it as background and in general anyway, just gimme a shout. you can borrow for a fair while - am not currently using at all.
it just may be interesting to have some backgound knowledge etc.

ally90 · 20/12/2007 15:54

The technique the nurses at the hospital used on me to get dd to latch on was called, just found it now, a 'nipple sandwich' . Imagine a big sandwich you would like to take a bite out of, you squash it flatter to get it in your mouth. But be a bit more gentle with your boob and don't cover the aerola.

Do you also know the nipple brushing technique? The automatic reflex of a baby is to open wide when something is brushed against their top lip, wham them on fast so they take a big mouthful of nipple, while squashing it like a sandwich.

kiskidee · 20/12/2007 15:55

youtube video

tiktok · 20/12/2007 15:58

Nbg, hope I can help.

Firstly., expressing 2x a day is nowhere near enough - it's great you expressed, but this will not go anywhere near buiding up any sort of a supply at all, and amid all the cheering and everything, you have to know this!

The only way you will maintain any breastfeeding at all is to start expressing at least 8 x in 24 hours inc at least once at night.

Babies who are latching and then going to sleep straight away/not sucking are not removing milk - and it is only milk removal that drives the supply. Try biological nurturing positions - google or check archives - which encourage instinctive behavuour and self-attachment. A good time to try is in the bath with him.

In the meantime, he's gonna have to have formula, or he won't have the energy to breastfeed - but with success at expressing (which will not be immediate) you will be able to swap some of the formula for ebm. You can also capitalise on those nuzzles and snuggles by keeping him close so you can respond to any sign he wants to come onto the breast.

You need lots of enclouragement, as you are effectively relactating, and calling one of the helplines is a good idea.

But above all, be realistic about the effort and time this is going to take - you have not left it too late at all, but the sooner you begin to express 8 x in 24 hours (minimum), using both breasts at least once per sessionm the better. You will need to keep this up for some time - days and nights off are not an option ! Good luck.

Original poster
Nbgdoesnthaveachristmasname · 20/12/2007 16:02

Thank you tiktok. Thats what I needed to know.

I think I'll call La Leche after tea before I go for a bath with him.

That video was amazing!
I cant believe how quickly that baby latched on!

OP posts:
Original poster
Nbgdoesnthaveachristmasname · 24/12/2007 14:57

Well just to let you know that I got in the bath with Ethan the night i posted this and it worked a treat .
He latched on straight away and had a good little feed.
I then tried him out of the bath the night after and he did it again but kept coming on and off.

Really pleased i have managed to do it.

OP posts:
kiskidee · 24/12/2007 15:06

hurrah

nothing wrong with filling the bath at 2am and getting in if needs must. in fact, it sounds like a lovely idea to me.

well done and you go girl. and you go Ethan.

look at this link and this one both on the same site. in fact it is a small site to browse around when you find the time.