Breastfeeding ruining my friendship :-( --may be long, sorry--

[GogoTheSmall]

I'm really sad about this and not sure how to handle it. My oldest friend and I both had babies within 3 months of each other. She had her ds first and bfing didn't go well - he fed all night long and she was told she had a sucky baby, also told her nipples were too flat. So she switched to formula on day 2 and also expressed for about three weeks before deciding to go ff full time.

My friend is a nurse and she has suffered a lot of guilt since giving up bfing. She has had enormous trouble watching me bf my dd (still going at 9 months and no plans to quit yet) and she used to have to leave the room when I fed her. I feel really bad for her. I love bfing but I certainly don't proselytise and I don't even mention it in front of her.

The trouble is that she keeps bringing it up when I see her. She is becoming quite defensive as time goes on and although she doesn't seem to have a problem watching me feed any more, she will say things to put down bfing in my presence. She is the type of person without much of a filter iyswim - just opens her mouth and out it comes!

Much of what she says isn't accurate either - stuff like 'oh, well breastmilk is only as healthy as the mother, so you need to eat a really healthy diet'.

And she has this awful way of comparing how many illnesses her ds has had compared with my dd and other babies by bfing mothers we know. I really hate that! My dd has only had 1 cold so far and her ds has had lots of different bugs but I'm sure there are complicated factors affecting that, not just bf vs ff.

So if she says something that I know is inaccurate I will correct her as nicely as possible, but the rest of the time I just bite my lip. All the same I can tell she thinks I am having a dig, no matter how neutral I try to keep what I say.

It is really getting in the way of our friendship now. I feel that next time my dd gets a cold or whatever my friend will be gloating in the background!

We have gone from being really close throughout our pregnancies to only speaking every few weeks. We were best friends all through school and have known each other for 25 years.

I really hope we can get over this stage in our lives but I am getting sick of the digs tbh. And she's planning number 2 - this could go on a while...

what have you said to her about how she's making you feel?

ah mate, that sounds awful!

2 approaches come to mind:

1. have it out with her - point out the pattern and say it's really getting you down. If you're finding it too hard you may have to stop seeing her for a while unless you can talk and finda happy compromise...?

1. say nothing but allow her the space to dig at you knowing it's all about her grief actually and her problems with it. You just come on here from time to time, vent at us, and go back to your friend knowing that in years to come, you'll both be able to distance yourself from these times and maybe talk it out then...

And if she's having another one, maybe you can heal the relationship if and when she asks for your help in establishing BF better this time?

Good luck

Once your baby reduces the amount of feeds there will be less occasion for her to critisise bf'ing. Like monkeybird says, she's dealing with her own problems with not bf'ing

I had this too, thankfully, it wasn't strung out for too long.

you'll get through it.

If your DD is now 9mo is she not feeding less in the day time and on solids more? Is your friend just like this about feeding or does she compare other aspects of your parenting? Agree re the bad advice your friend got. Having a bad 2nd night cannot really be unusual and I think at that age (ie still hours old) the time of day of birth is still a factor.

I'm still feeding my ds3, he is 2 now and family keep saying hurtful comments - 'your not still feeding are you?', 'when are you going to stop?' etc.

I have realised their comments are all about them - not about me, and is none of their beeswax. They weren't bf and I think this provokes all sorts of feelings in them, that they then try to project on to me.

I had similar experience with a previously very good friend a few years ago, we both had babies around the same time and after a couple of weeks she gave up bf, she began making snippy comments about difference in weight gain and how she got so much more sleep, we drifted apart. Parenting really challenges who you are as a person and in this instance it made me realise how very different our parenting styles were, we became very different people.

"I feel that next time my dd gets a cold or whatever my friend will be gloating in the background!" a real friend just wouldn't do this, it sounds like she is trying to undermine you so you stop, this sounds like it is about power?

Gogo, if you have been friends for that long
why aren't you straight with her?

It's her issue, that much is clear.
I don't think you can help her resolve it but
she is using you to make herself feel better,
in the process making you feel crap.

Tell her very clearly that you don't
want to talk about breast/formula feeding.
If you like, reinforce the message by stressing
that you feel this topic is destroying a 25 year friendship
and it is simply not worth it.

If she makes any further comments, ignore them,
change the subject or, if you are in a bad mood,
have a little go at her!

I really feel for you I was in a similar situation with a friend who was a hv and she stopped bf both of hers as she said she didn't have enough milk
in the end it all came to a head when we offered to look after her 2 for the weekend so her and dh could go away she basically questioned every aspect of our parenting and I just told her that I had enough we just send xmas cards now

I think if you can bite your tongue and you want to stay friends then try to do that
I felt that I didn't need toxic people around as I was also having ivf for nb 2 so just cut her out and although I have a twinge of guilt every now and then I feel happier for it
she was making me miserable and it got to the point where I hated meeting her so now I don't have that worry

Aitch, no I haven't said anything to her at all. Ignore, ignore is my approach so far. I feel somewhat better after ranting on here!

She does compare parenting styles a lot, it's just that this issue is the only one she feels threatened by. She's not threatened at all by the fact that we did blw from 26 weeks, while she started rusks and baby rice at 16 weeks, because she thinks we're mad for doing it! and because I would never say anything negative about her choice.

IMO - this totally comes down to how much you can and are willing to tolerate. I think it is fair to say that since she is behaving in a totally surprising manner around this subject, you cannot predict how she will behave if you confront her.

She may take your comments on board and apologise and correct her behaviour moving forward.
She may kick off and you may have a head to head that could well throw your friendship off track.

If you are not willing to risk losing the friendship, then stay schtum.
If you cannot take anymore and think her behaviour will push you further away then what is the risk of you telling her how you feel?

This isnt about how good a friendship you have - she isnt in a great place around this issue and it is obvious that not being able to continue bfeeding dominates her feelings, especially when round you. Its your choice whether you continue to be around her when she isnt in this great place. I think you are very patient to tolerate her comments for 9 months - I would've taken a few months of it tops before saying something.

Let us know how you get on. And huge well done for bfeeding for so long!

THis happened to me and a very close friend, in that I was the one for whom b/f had gone badly and she sailed through it.
If I'm being honest I found her really prissy in front of me about b/f, she kind of drew attention to herself doing it, just at a time when a bit of me had died. Occasionally I made daft comments and I cringe now, but at the time I just thought, yes I know you are chuffed and rightly so but please please be realistic about breastfeeding. I had a child who had nothing wrong with him and hers always had some sort of infection - sample size of two so means nothing I know - it was not necessary or tactful for her to keep breezing on about the benefits.
Not saying that's what you do (I hope you are more tactful than my friend!) but one vie of it - not one I'm proud of before anyone has a go. It was the hardest time of my life, by way of some explanation.

I'd go with all the people who've said to keep it buttoned. Say anything and I suspect you'll get back a whole load of counter accusations that'll mortify you.

I've heard lots of women who haven't bf speaking about commenting that they feel looked down on by bf mothers. Personally I think most of the slights are imagined and that the feeling of being attacked is linked to their internal feelings of guilt and inadequacy. Nevertheless - if someone's got an open wound - don't rub salt into it!

"I found her really prissy in front of me about b/f, she kind of drew attention to herself doing it," Hope you don't mind me commenting on this - but to an outsider this sounds like a case in point. How can you be 'prissy' about breastfeeding? She was probably horribly self-conscious! As for 'breezing on about the benefits' - did it ever occur to you that she might have had a lack of confidence in her bf? I've found myself talking about the benefits of bf when I've been in a position where I've felt as though my friends were looking down on me for bf an older baby - I know some of them think I'm a mug for still bf my 2 and a half year old! You can't assume that all women who bf are totally confident in their choice either - and why would they be in a society where the majority of mums don't bf and/or don't have much confidence that it's even possible to raise a baby without needing to use formula!

i think Pruni is aware of all the things you mentioned, Sabire, and that's why she posted. i had a slightly similar situation with a friend and i honestly think if my bfing had worked out it would have been really bad for the freindship. doesn't make her a bad person, she was just utterly, utterly traumatised. i'm with dal21, although i think it sounds like the friendship is a bit screwed anyway...

hi sabire - this isnt about rubbing salt into a wound. gogo is bfeeding her bub, how can she change that fact?

as tough as it maybe for non bfeeding mothers, IMO it is also incredibly draining and tiring to bfeed and gogo deserves support too. the fact that she has stayed quiet for 9 months shows (a) she is a far more tolerant person than me and (b) by not confronting, has in her own way trying not to rub salt into the wound. No one should have to tolerate constant digs and belittling from a friend over anything.

when i say confront - it can be done in a nice, calm and gentle manner. preferably just the 2 of them, on neutral ground while someone else looks after bubs. so they can concentrate on having a good heart to heart. A good friendship will always clear up after a heart to heart. a not so good friendship will deteriorate even further.

Aitch is right, I am fully aware...It is hard to explain the prissy thing, she would get up from a table in a cafe, go and find a waitress, ask the poor girl loudly if it was all right to breastfeed there, then latch the baby on, and say "See, if you're bottle-feeding, you don't need to bother with the politeness thing." I think that's fairly unnecessary and prissy. you kind of have to know her, I guess.
As for not having confidence at the time - well that's not my call, I don't think so (knowing ehr very well) but even so - you pick your time and place, no?
FWIW I didn't have a huge massive seething problem - I encouraged her to get a breastfeeding counsellor in before her baby was born - I just boiled over occasionally and let it out by saying how happy I was that my ds wasn't picking up colds. (God it wasn't nice, it was stupid, I am not proud.)
It s quite possible to breastfeed and be a bit of a tactlesss dickhead about it!

I'm sure it is possible to be a dickhead about bfing although I can say for certain that I am being extremely undickheady by staying off the bloody topic in her presence!

I wonder, is there a way for a bfing mother and ffing mother to have a nice easy non-diggy chat comparing their feeding practices in a totally neutral way?

Ah, there is gogo - it just takes time. Said friend and I are currently exchanging emails about her feeding problems - we've both moved since those days.
You are quite entitled to have a good long moan about how HCPs in general don't know anything about breastfeeding and hope she takes the message.
That, or a bazooka

oh yes i definitely think so, a pal of mine is bfing her child and i am very happy for her indeed, and there was no issue with our NCT group where there were 3 ex bfers, two mix-feeders and two ffers. it's such a tricky, tricky area though because it does sound as if she hasn't really moved on very much from the experience. how's weaning going for her, is her baby eating solids well?

Agree it's definitely possible for bb/ff mums to have a good relationship. There were 5 of us from an NCT group who carried on seeing each other after we had our babies (and still are nearly 3 years later). 3 of us ff after bf for a short time and the other 2 bf. We all discussed feeding in a very open and friendly manner. 2 of us have had another baby. I bf for a short time again and the other still bfs. Although I'm quite envious of her bfing I am very happy for her and wish her all the best. I would never make her feel uncomfortable just because I have issues.

without reading the other posts except the opening...
she is a nurse, right, so she ought to know a bit about sensitivity. she isn't showing any which is sad for you.

you are from what you say, being sensible and sensitive to her feelings.

you need to stop feeling guilty about your bf relationship with her.

it is not your fault that she followed advice from people who were poorly informed about bf. she has not acknowledged this issue to herself or is willfully ignoring it in order to make herself feel better.
Maybe you can gently guide her later on where to find reliable source of bf information before she has no 2?

I know you treasure your past relationship with her and hope that it can survive this test. There is nothing wrong with pulling back a bit and renewing it a bit later on when things may not be feeling so visceral for her.

"you need to stop feeling guilty about your bf relationship with her."

hmm, that doesn't sound right.

you need to stop feeling guilty aobut your bf relationship with your dd and how your friend is percieving it.

Aitch, her ds is pretty much completely weaned now. He loves his food although it is funny to watch the battle between them as she feeds him - he would much rather feed himself all the time but she won't let him - not sure why - it's like the complete opposite of blw! (ooh it's good to bitch)

What a great pair of friends we are, slagging each others' parenting off all the time. Maybe we shouldn't be bothering after all.

well, things do change in friendships as time goes on. maybe just let things take their course for the moment and let her do her thang.

But you can really like someone and simultaneously find them teeth-itchingly annoying (see story of friend below).

Im in a similar position with my friend. She is coming over tomorrow and im dreading it! She is also a nurse. Scary.