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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

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Original poster

When should you offer the second breast?

25 replies

Stefka · 16/12/2007 19:39

The last few days he has been a bit fussy at the breast though. He gets windy and squirms around but when I take him off to burp him I can't get him to and he screams because he is still hungry so I put him back on.

I am confused about a few things - when should I be offering the second breast? I have been putting him back on the first breast a few times seeing as I am the one taking him off but sometimes he only seems to settle if I put him on the second breast. I am worried about him not getting enough of the hind milk though.

At the last feed he was put on the first breast about three times with me taking him off when he got too squirmy. Then he went on the second and came off himself. He was burped and he was awake for a bit then fell asleep. An hour later he woke up screaming. I offered him a bottle of EBM and he wolfed it down like he was starving. My DS has always gone anything from 2-6 hours between feeds.

Could this be because of the way I am doing things? I don't know why he is so gassy and I am confused about the whole offering second breast thing. Any advice?

OP posts:

whomovedmychocolate · 16/12/2007 19:44

You don't say how old he is. It could be that you have slow letdown and there is a technique where you switch sides to stimulate it quicker. However I think some people don't recommend it because you get too much thirst quenching foremilk and not enough calorific hindmilk (no doubt greater minds than mine will turn up and clarify that shortly).

If he is getting very windy have you tried sitting him bolt upright held against you - this can produce some prodigious burps IME. Also you could try propping one end of his cot up if he is getting reflux.

But as a basic answer, if one breast is empty and he still seems hungry offer the other. If he immediately comes off and/or falls asleep, he's had enough, if he latches on lustily and sucks away, he's still hungry.

Original poster

Stefka · 16/12/2007 19:49

8 weeks today. So should I keep putting him back on the first breast if I am taking him off to burp? Sometimes he cries when I put him back on that one and won't settle. He never used to be like this - he just had one boob at a time and was happy feeding. Didn't really get wind either - don't know why it is happening now. I am worried about him not getting enough at feeds.

OP posts:

whomovedmychocolate · 16/12/2007 20:17

Yes. Oh at eight weeks you are still getting your supply sorted out. You need to feed him as often as you can - certainly shouldn't be letting 6 hours pass between feeds, unless you are one of those unbelievably lucky mothers whose LO sleeps through immediately.

Babies do deliver colic around this time also. Might be worth seeking an sacrocranial osteopaths help.

Original poster

Stefka · 16/12/2007 20:21

He will sleep from around midnight till 6ish - sometimes he does get me up but often he will go right through.

OP posts:

whomovedmychocolate · 16/12/2007 20:54

Yeah, I'd keep quiet about that bit if I were you

DD is 14 months old and has never slept through

Original poster

Stefka · 16/12/2007 22:06

If it makes you feel better he tends to cry all evening and I've had a terrible time with feeding. Getting a bit of rest has kept me slightly sane.

OP posts:

tiktok · 16/12/2007 22:42

I wish in 2008 that people would stop being made to feel worried about flippin' foremilk and hindmilk!!

The baby sorts it out and if you are feeding responsively, you don't need to even think about it

Most babies, at least at first, and most mothers, at least at first, get along best if both breasts are at least offered every time. That way, both breasts get stimulated to make more milk and a good supply is built up. Common sense enters it with regard to timing - a baby who comes off the first breast after a few minutes for a splutter or a cough or whatever can go back to the same breast again; if the coming off is a bit more substantial than that, then when the baby perks up again, or shows by his squirming he wants the other side, he can be offered the second side.

The squirming may just mean 'I need a small break' not because he's windy. I don't understand the need for EBM - if he wakes up after 30 mins, an hour, 2 hours, whatever....just offer the breast again.

Hope this helps.

Original poster

Stefka · 16/12/2007 22:46

Thanks tiktok. The EBM is just to get a break. I have been giving him the odd bottles because of my sore nipples. I started off with quite a few a day but I am down to one now and I think I am ready to cut that out now as my nipples are healing well

OP posts:

Trimum2 · 16/12/2007 23:16

my ds does this when he has had enough of one side.

whomovedmychocolate · 16/12/2007 23:29

See! Told you greater minds than me etc - thanks Tiktok

tiktok · 17/12/2007 09:29

RGPargy · 17/12/2007 09:38

So they get squirmy when they want the other side??? I thought it meant they were getting full!!

Caz10 · 17/12/2007 09:58

So glad it is not just me who is confused! When you think how many breastfeeding mothers there must be in the UK it seems mental that so many of us are confused!

I started offering the 2nd breast yesterday after good advice from people on here and reading the links posted - had a much better night last night - LO seemed to feed more "effectively" if that is the right word - so it might just be a fluke but we'll see!

tiktok · 17/12/2007 09:58

Squirmy can have several meanings, RG....it's part of the fun! Usually, though, it means 'I want to change what I am doing now in some unspecified way'

Helpful, eh?

RGPargy · 17/12/2007 10:01

lol yes, very helpful tiktok!

ILikeToMoveItMoveIt · 17/12/2007 10:10

Tiktok - can you clarify about foremilk and hindmilk. My sis always told me not to get so stressed about them as there isn't a clear division between the two, ie they are produced/mixed together.

Is this right? Are we all stressing about f and h milk for no good reason?!

tiktok · 17/12/2007 10:20

Ilike - best account of all this is at www.kellymom.com under 'how breastfeeding works'.

Bizzarely, several of the more popular books on bf and baby care do not understand the way it works, and they compound the myth by talking about the baby having to 'reach' the hindmilk (bollocks) and in the case of the unlovely Baby Whisperer, a third and previously unknown milk is just invented, called 'quencher' milk

5goldrings4MONKEYBIRDs · 17/12/2007 10:23

I'm on my 3rd BF baby and I'm still confused about what it all means!

I think you just gotta give in to knowing that they have their own way of 'telling' you stuff and it's different for every baby and gradually by trial and error, you both learn to 'speak' to each other

laundrylover · 17/12/2007 10:27

Stefka, glad your nips are getting better - i had been wondering if you were still bfing and really pleased that you are. Well done you.

In response to the hindmilk/foremilk and also the one boob/two boob issue I sometimes think that we western women read a bit too much literature for our own good. Millions of women and other mammals worldwide bfeed successfully well beyond the six month mark and have probably never heard of hind and foremilk! When bfing DD2 I tried to put myself in their position (having listened to too much 'advice' with DD1) and just try to respond to what DD2 was 'telling' me. I fed both sides a couple of times each feed, fed on demand, didn't time feeds etc etc and am still feeding at 21 months.

Soooo, if you are worrying about something, sit back and pretend to be a gorilla in the forest and think what they would do!!!

tiktok · 17/12/2007 10:31

Monkey - that's absolutely right. Breastfeeding is a relationship that improves with communication, and that communication improves with time and sensitivity and responsiveness.

It's not difficult, really - but if you expect rules and timings, then it can be.

Feed the baby when he cues to be fed, or when you feel like it, or when either or both of you want to cuddle, and keep him close/next to you so you can respond to all this (rather than the baby having to yell every time - some babies will simply not yell and will sleep away their feeding cues). Offer first one breast, and then the other when the baby seems to indicate it would be a good time to do this.

And that's it.

Not a clock, or a book, or a baby expert, in sight

laundrylover · 17/12/2007 10:40

Hey Monkeybird, I wasn't inferring you were a gorilla there!! Cross posts.

I was watching Long Way Down the other week and Ewan McGregor referred to a gorilla as 'bfing her baby' which really brought home how similar we are to them. People never refer to a cow or sheep as bfing for instance, just feeding.

5goldrings4MONKEYBIRDs · 17/12/2007 10:51

no biggie, LL: sometimes a gorilla, sometimes a budgie...

5goldrings4MONKEYBIRDs · 17/12/2007 10:56

PS Stef, my DS3 now makes it ABUNDANTLY clear when he doesn't want 2nd boob (and it really varies whether he does or not - just now he wanted a little sip and then clonk! straight out to sleep) by arching his head as far back and away from my nipple if I offer it, going 'NO WAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY'...

And to think, when he was 3 weeks, I'd clamp my hand on as firmly as I could on back of neck to hold him firm... No wonder I get oversupply problems! But there you go - that's how it is, they can't tell you and you don't know but in a few weeks your communication will be word perfect I bet!

And yeah, the main thing for you is you're getting to that brilliant point where you're still BF, its not hurting and you can start to really enjoy it hopefully!

Didja think you'd get here in those gruelling nights? No. But here you are and we're all so bloody proud of you!

Original poster

Stefka · 17/12/2007 13:40

Ah that's nice I wasn't sure I would get here. It's still nippy on one side and uncomfortable on the other but compared to the pain I was in it's totally manageable. I am hoping for pain free nips for Christmas!

OP posts:

5goldrings4MONKEYBIRDs · 17/12/2007 19:57

I'll get Santa to send you a new pair

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