on the verge of giving up

[Corky]

my wife has been breastfeeding for 5 days and is suffering extreme painand some bleeding from the nipple. she has so little energy post birth that she's got the shakes. she wants to give up and i don't know what to say to her. has any one been here before and can someone offer any advice?

Corky, the convenience of bfing over sterilizing etc. will eventually more than make up for all the trouble and pain. With my first, I didn't get bleeding nipples, but they were a bit cracked (I used pure vitamin e oil which has no taste). When my ds latched on it was definitely teeth gritting for the first month or so. After that there was really no pain and it truly does become enjoyable (hard to imagine right now, I know). Also, the feeling of your breasts getting so full they are about to explode does go away within the first couple of months as the milk regulates itself. This time around my dd is almost 3 weeks and the initial latching on pain stopped a few days ago. I did get a bout of mastitis last week and found that express VERY SLOWLY and CAREFULLY with the avent hand pump for about 1/2 hour really helped relieve the pressure. My first fed every 2 hours for 6 months and never slept more than 12ish hours in a 24 hour period. This baby slept for 4 hours straight her very first night and is doing 4 and 6 hour stints regularly already and sleeps 16-18 hours in a 24 hour period. If your baby is sleeping, let her do it and enjoy. Each baby has their own personality (as do adults) and will sleep varying amounts of time.
By the way, I'm sure your midwife has already told you this, but make sure that the baby's mouth is COMPLETELY covering the aereola. Also the baby's lower lip should be sticking out like the baby is pouting. I found that as long as I stuck to those 2 rules regardless of what position the baby was in, I didn't end up with really sore bleeding nipples. If your baby has latched on wrong, just slide your little finger in the side of her mouth to break the suction and get her to reposition. I saw somewhere, (maybe babycentre.co.uk) a really useful diagram of what it looks like inside the baby's mouth when she's bfing. Basically the nipple elongates (from the sucking suction) and is partially down her throat. I found that imagining her doing this helped me position her and her mouth correctly around my breast.
Make sure you eat lots and lots of really yummy things and don't you dare even think about regaining your figure for a few months minimum. Also, don't forget that your hormones are still running wild. It does take a few weeks minimum for them to calm down, so expect yourself to be super emotional up and down about everything and try to go with the flow (ie cry if you have to, and yell if you need to). Wishing you lots and lots of luck.

Not much to add to all the advice you've been given here, Corky and dh - just to repeat that it is normal to feel quite a bit of pain and discomfort while breastfeeding gets established. I found it heavy going at first - it took about six weeks for it to finally settle down. Kamillosan and letting the air to my nipples really helped with the pain. Like Bundle, I overcame a bad start to feed for two years and I came to really enjoy it.
I'd recommend lots of yummy things to eat, you both deserve it - stuff the cooking, splurge on some nice ready meals from M & S, and Floradix tonic to boost your energy levels. It contains iron in a palatable form which can help with fatigue. It is quite safe to use while breastfeeding.
Good luck whatever you decide - and keep posting here, we'll all support you.

Corky - hope you enjoyed your rest this morning. One tip that a West Indian midwife gave me, and it really relieved my nipples, was to put just the teet of the bottle over the nipple. I tried nipple shields but they just didn't work as well as the teet. It created a vacuum of milk which really soothed the soreness and baby was able to get her milk. Once the nipple had heald-up, I was able to resume painless breastfeeding.

Good luck!

Hi. I would agree with robinw that nipple shields are indeed much better than giving up. I used them for a month with DS1 (!) and a week with DS2. It was absolute agony for weeks with ds2 and I wish I had seen a breastfeeding counsellor, because the midwives, while sweet and kind, just didn't know what to suggest. I was too weak to organise the counsellor - your wife is lucky she has you, corky. Expressing sounds a good idea to give the pain chance to subside. Thrush could also be investigated. My pain eased off spontaneously one Friday afternoon, out of the blue. Just concentrate on that - the pain could be gone soon. You've had lots of good advice overnight I see - I would take it all. Buy all the creams and sprays and shields and keep going until you find something that works. I suspect that I fed too often and too long with ds2 at first, because I didn't have any pain with ds1 and he was a poor sucker. It might be better for you to mix feed until the pain subsides, while keeping up your supply with a pump.
HTH

Would like to add my sympathies - in my case breastfeeding was sorer second time round. My magic pition was 'TNT' - Tender Nipple Treatment from Earthlets (www.earthlets.co.uk) which was lovely and I still occasionally use it when he has been feeding a lot!
All the best, can add my voice to those who say it is worth persevering because this is the WORST bit and it does get better, and eventually hassle free. All the best.

Corky - first off am a bit confused - how old is your baby and how long have you been b/f for five days or ten weeks? I totally agree that ten weeks of extreme pain is more than enough to knock anyone for six - let alone a new mum (presume this is your first - correct me if I'm wrong).

I had a horrible time establishing breastfeeding - ds wouldn't latch on, he'd start sucking and then shake his head around and come off - and I found it all very painful etc etc. Finally, after several awful weeks - during which time ds was getting smaller - I gave up and whacked him on a bottle, despite being heartbroken that I had "failed". That same night he was screaming with hunger but the bottle was too hot - so I whacked him on the boob to try and pacify him while the milk cooled. Incredibly, he finally got the hang of it and started sucking for all that he was worth. It was still touch and go for a few weeks - but we seemed to have reached a new stage, so I persevered. That was two and a half years ago and I ended up breastfeeding for a year. Yes, it was a lot less hassle than having to sterilise bottles and mix formula and I am glad that I personally managed to do it. However, having said that, if you have been trying for ten weeks and can't take any more then DON'T. A new baby is hard enough work without all the pain and guilt that you are obviously going through. You need a break.

Alternatively, try expressing - then someone else can give the baby a feed and you can get some much needed kip. I know what people say about the minute you give a baby a bottle it's no longer interested in b/f - but that wasn't the case with my son, if anything it helped him get his head around sucking. Don't know if it has any relevance, but my ds had a traumatic forceps birth (looked like an elf his head was so pointed) - and I strongly believe that he had the mother of all headaches for quite some time that didn't help matters. In hindsight I should have tried cranial oesteopathy - frankly anything's worth a punt.

All this said, if you are only five days in be aware that this is early stages and b/f can take a while to establish - so don't give up if it's simply because you think it should have all happened by now and have become convinced that it won't happen for you.

Conflicting advice I know - but while b/f worked for me in the long run I do feel that I went through hell to get there. So do what is right for you so that you can be a happy mummy - and if you do decide to give up don't let anyone make you feel guilty - let alone some midwife who may not even have kids of her own. The most important thing is that you all bond with your baby and can concentrate on being a family. (PS: No offence meant to our very own Mumnsetter midwives M and L, if I could turn back time you would have both been at my bedside!)

Corky - I am sure there is plenty of good advice here. Just to say keep trying ... certainly sounds like problems with positioning the baby. If baby sucks the end of your nipple then not much milk comes out and you get a v sore nipple. Try to feed and express as much as possible because if the milk doesn't flow you will get mastitis and eventually of course the milk supply will decrease.

The more bottles you give the less likely b/feeding will succeed... however even mixed feeding is better than nothing and like Willow2 you may find baby suddenly knows what to do. You will be amazed at the difference between a newborn and a baby of 6 weeks ... keep us posted... and phone that b/feeding counsellor!

Corky, sorry if I'm repeating something that's been said before. If the breasts are engorged and rock-hard your baby will have difficulty latching on properly, and may only be able to get the end of the nipple into his mouth. Try expressing a little before offering the breast, and he may find it a little easier, and you a little less painful.

Good luck

Corky I do hope my last post did not give you the impression that if bf starts off painful it will be like that for ten weeks! I think I was very unlucky in that respect.
What I was (clumsily) trying to say was do you want to continue with breastfeeding or do you sort of "want permission"and help to stop?
Of course at this stage you may not be sure!
Either way, there is plenty of help out there.
There is no way you should suffer like this indefinately.
Best of luck with whatever you decide.

Loads of info here - I'd just add that shields have drawbacks but can help in a crisis. Teats over the nipple - no, sorry, unikely to help in any way (though someone was helped by them so never say never!). Leaving hours betweeen feeds leads to painful engorgement....could make things far, far worse. So giving bottles as a break can lead to their own problems.

There's no substitute for face to face with someone who knows what they are looking for - someone needs to see you feed. Once the positiining is amended, it will not hurt anything like as much, will heal quickly, and may not hurt at all even straight away.

Call NCT bf line 8am to 10 pm 0870 444 8708.

Good luck whatever you decide to do.

Don't think I can add any more to what's been said and sorry if I repeat anything but wanted to be supportive. I initally struggled to breastfeed and found it hard going but it does get easier. Can definately support the use of kamillosan and cabbage leaves (you can actually buy boob soothers that you put in the fridge but cabbage is much cheaper. I was also advised to rub a bit of your breast milk over your nipples after feeding has finished to help stop them going dry and cracking. There are advantages and disadvantages with breast or bottle but you should do what you really want and what suits you. Whatever you decide will be right for you.

Can I just add that it is all very well saying that positioning can be sorted out with expert help - but if the baby isn't up for feeding properly IMO it won't make an ounce of difference. I was stuck in hospital with ds for ten days - during which time I was visited by a b/f counsellor and also every midwife in a ten mile radius. I lost count of a) the number of people who grabbed my boobs and whopped them in ds' mouth, b) the number of positions we tried. Not one of them could get my son to feed properly - and this wasn't for lack of trying. He still wasn't feeding properly when we left hospital and didn't establish feeding for at least another week if not longer.

I remember the feeling in the first two weeks of having to brace myself when DS latched on and it being really painful - after those two weeks it was fine, and was pain free until DS got teeth!!

The cabbage leaves worked a treat for me when my breasts were engorged - even though it made me feel even more unattractive than I was already feeling (stretch marks, stitches, leaking boobs, etc etc etc).

Hope things are settling down for you all.

Hi Corky - no more advice to add, except that if you do want to b/feed your baby, please believe that it will get better. Personally, I would stay off the formula (although with ds he was on mixed feeding from 2 wks, because he wasn't putting on weight - with hindsight I would now do this again - I would persevere with the breast). If you are finding your breasts are engorged, then at least that means you have plenty of milk available for baby.

Good luck!

Willow2, this was my experience too. Loads of them looked at us and repositioned him, but next feed, it was back to the same old habits.
He nipple sucked for ages and nothing I did made him open his mouth wide. Some babies just take ages to learn, but it hurts like hell.
Sadly (and stupidly when you think about it) this is one of my many reasons for not going for baby number 3 - I just couldn't go through those first few weeks again. So why not bottle feed then, better to have been bottle fed than never to have been born at all! I know, but I just seem to have a bit of a 'thing' about wanting to do it right. My sadness, my neurosis.

just wanted to say something about mixed feeding: For various reasons I had terrible problems with bf, so ds had a mixture of breast, expressing & formula, & he never had any difficulties going from breast to bottle & back again (& moved effortlessly to spouty-cups instead of bottles when he turned 1). However, I never had enough milk so didn't have the engorgement problems other people have mentioned. (Oh, I was so jealous of people with engorged breasts!!)

2 women I knew who soley breastfed effortlessly & successfully then had real problems when they went back to work & had to get their babies onto bottles during the day.

Droile - my 1st was very difficult and like yours just wouldn't open his mouth properly during the first few weeks. No2 was completely different and took to it straight away. As you know its always the baby that makes the feeding easy/difficult not the mother. Each baby is different - you may find no3 is fine and the first few weeks will be a breeze. Subsequent babies tend to be bigger and this usually helps as they are stronger.

Corky - how is it going? I used a cream called Lansinoh - (I think the brand is something to do with the La Leche League) for my sore from being bitten nipples - ouch! It's 100% lanolin and I think you can buy something similar in Boots - it really helped to soothe the pain! I definately wouldn't have carried on without it. It also worked a treat on my cat's eczema(?sp)!!!

I was given a wondercream called Purelan whic was through the breastfeeding advisor at the hospital. Worked marvels to the extent that breastfeeding no longer made me cry.

kamilsan, a cream with chamomile in it, really helped me overcome that sore nipple stage. Not a magic cure but it was a comfort just knowing I had it - made me feel I was doing all I could to make things bearable. And at the first sign of my nipples healing, I really felt I'd turned the corner. Things became better by the hour.

HTH

corky, how are you doing?

Corky (and Corky's DH): I haven't read the whole thread, so I may be repeating what others have said, but have you tried contacting the NCT Breastfeeding line, or La Leche League? I cried on several NCT Breastfeed Counsellors' shoulders (mostly on the phone, but a couple in person as well) and got marvellous advice and support from them. Sometimes you really do need face-to-face help, and sometimes you just need an ear to listen. The best helpers will aid you without touching you - no plonking your boob in baby's mouth for you! I found that once I got the positioning sorted out ALL the pain went away, within 24 hours. The position that helped me was like nothing I'd ever seen before, somewhere between Russian gymnast contortionism and American football (I mean holding the baby, not my own position), and after a few days feeding like that I was able to vary the position according to what was convenient at the time. As for energy, right now Corky is the prize brood mare, queen of the sofa, drinks, food, cushions, remote control, everything within reach so that you can eat, drink, rest and feed as much as you need. A little bit of exercise is important - but it's the rest that you need right now. And finally (these are all tips that helped me) multivitamins with iron - the same stuff that you may have taken druing pregnancy.

Good luck, and let us know how you get on.

No, one more 'and finally': if you need a break, there's no reason on earth why your dh shouldn't give a bottle from time to time, the best time for that being in the evening or night, so that you can have a good 'long' sleep and make lots of milk.

I'm not on the verge of giving up really, but one of my nipples is SO sore and tender that I find myself putting off feeding my 11 day old daughter. There don't seem to be any cracks there, although the nipple is very pink and looks slightly inflamed. The other one is a bit sore but generally ok. Can I leave off feeding from the sore one for 24 hours? Would expressing make it even more irritated than feeding does? Could I have thrush? I fed dd1 for 7 months with no problems. I suppose it could be my latch although changing positions doesn't seem to help. I have large nipples and poor dd2 can't really get any areola in her mouth as well as the nipple. Help, its really getting me down

Enid, I found expressing less painful than the baby suckling. Personally I could never go for 24 hrs without feeding/expressing off a breast because it became too uncomfortable.

Enid, when I had a similar problem, expressing did help and it was less painful than feeding. I had no visible crack in the nipple either, but that did not stop me slathering on Kamillosan...just in case. The pain did ease quite soon: for us, it was the latch, so a change of position helped.
Sorry to hear it is giving you a spot of bother and hope you get lots of good advice for a longer term solution. If you can tough it out until dd2 (and her little mouth) have grown a bit...