4 day old baby falling asleep too easily during breast feeding

[Corky]

Please can any one offer advice on keeping baby awake longer during feeds - for example could the nursery be too hot or is it that she has already taken enough milk?

Corky, have you tried all the usual tickling behind the neck, blowing on the baby's face, tickling the toes etc?

PS Congrats on the new baby!!!

Yes - it does work eventually - but seems to require almost consant "intervention".

HI again, Corky....
how long does she feed for? My 2nd rarely nursed for longer than 5 minutes; still doesn't (now 1yo).

The only thing you could ask your midwife about is whether the baby might have jaundice? jaundiced babies are often very sleepy. Does she want to stay clamped on but is only half-awake? That's normal newborn nursing behaviour. Awake & asleep are not black and white conditions for newborns; their brains are wired up differently from adults. And newborns can, indeed, nurse while pretty much asleep.

Our ds was terrible at falling asleep during feeds - he would drop off after 5 or 6 sucks, with the result that he did not put on much weight for ages, and I also had problems with b/feeding, although that sorted out, and I ended up feeding for 13 months.

We found that it was largely to do with being too hot, and that good tricks were to take all his clothes off, put him on the changing mat (where the cold plastic would wake him up), splashing cold water on his face....it is worth it, although it feels like hard work!

Thanks Demented and Zebra for your replies, she seems to feed on average for around 1 hour, but she's usually stop/start with lots of tickling where you mentioned. She does have slight jaundice which we're trying to get rid of by putting her moses basket near the window and by regular feeds to flush it our of her system. I just worry that she's not getting all the for/hind milk when she has short intermitent sucks in the hour.

Corky my dd is just coming up to 3 weeks and in her first few days she was always falling asleep as I suppose it is quite hard work for them. I tickled her. let her wake up, right awake, before feeding her and if she did fall asleep during her feed when she woke back up (which was normally after a short time as she was still hungry) I would put her back on the same breast if she hadnt fed long. She still falls asleep now sometimes but normally if she just fancied a snack. Your dd will be coming up to her first growth spurt and she wont stop feeding.

Corky, foremilk and hindmilk sort themselves out with a healthy, term baby who is kept close so she has all her instincts to feed stimulated.

Just let her take a rest when she feeds, keep her with you (pref. skin to skin), and she may perk up. It's normal for babies to stop and start - after all, you don't attack every plate of food you have continuusly, you take breaks (I assume) and then start eating again.

Give a call to the NCT bf line 0870 444 8708 for more info and support.

As far as I'm aware short feeds are more to quench a thirst, and longer feeds are for hunger. If baby falls asleep then I would think she's fairly contented. I'd also use this time to get some sleep yourself ready for when she really gets hungry.

It will all settle down and you'll start to get a feel for her "routine" (I use the term loosely!).

My dd (13mo) still falls asleep on occasion when feeding although hers tend to be more snacks now.

Corky, my dd (now 2 1/2 weeks) was very sleepy the first 4 or 5 days compared to my ds who ate voraciously from day one. I followed Dr.Spock's advice to tickle her awake a couple of times and after that to just let her sleep until she wanted to feed again. By the second week she was doing much longer feeds and is clearly fattening up. But she still doesn't suck as hard or as much as my ds did. I think it's just personality.
I wouldn't worry about it too much at this stage (apart from the jaundice aspect). As long as she seems to be gaining and not losing weight, it might well be a few weeks before she is less lethargic. It's hard work getting the milk out and it might take her some time to work up the strength to do it all in one go.

I was told to tickle my ds' feet and remove some of his clothing - suppose thinking being that if he was a bit chilly he'd wake up

In response to TVWomans post, I think that is generally true, but in the case of my ds, I was blissfully unaware of the fact that his 'contented sleep' was in fact due to having no food - he ended up losing a lot of weight in the first week or so, and then did not regain his birth weight for 5 weeks. Breastfeeding took a long time to establish, because the milk supply had not been sufficiently stimulated at the beginning, and I ended up getting really stressed about the whole thing, and we had to supplement with bottles.

But, as I said before, I managed to b/feed up till 13 months, so in the end it worked really well - I just wished someone had said that a baby who sleeps isn't necessarily contented and full of milk! But, if they're filling lots of nappies, and have periods of being awake and alert then you're probably doing ok!

Thanks for all of your messages, they have been very helpful. I get the feeling from the responses that it's probably ok but I am still to see any yellow poo in any quantity - we are seeing the pond sludge type poos at the moment. But she has been wetting the nappies ok.

Musica - you're right. The sleeping alone is not a good indication and I apologise for misleading info. Yes, plenty of wet nappies are a sign that baby is getting adequate fluid.

I do find that the amount of time spent at the breast though is no real indication of how much they take. dd would sometimes spend only 5 minutes but often seem to take far more than she would when spending 20 minutes.

Echoing everything that's been said, plenty of wet nappies and I wouldn't worry

My youngest has always taken short freqent feeds - literally 5 minutes at a time, then another feed 20 minutes later - exhausting but she was content ...

She was also very sleepy for her first few weeks and didn't regain her birthweight until she was 5 weeks old but that was right for her.

Corky,

My dd was just the same as a newborn, slightly jaundiced and conked out nearly as soon as she latched on to feed. She nursed for perhaps five to seven minutes before falling asleep. Her doctor and the lactation consultant both agreed that as long as she was having enough wet diapers (meconium poos can last as long as five days, so she may just not be done with the pond sludge) she was fine. Babies naturally drop a bit of weight the first few days after birth and it's not necessarily unhealthy.

The advice I was given (that helped me tremendously) was simply to feed her as often as she wanted, which was nearly every 1/2 hour to 45 minutes round the clock. As well, to only nurse on one side at a time so that she got a nice mix of hind and foremilk and to help empty the breast as much as possible (although lactating breasts are never actually empty). To help me remember which side I was due to nurse on, I wore a ring on my thumb which I switched from side to side, indicating which side was next up. Sounds funny but it worked for me.

Another thing the LC and my mother both said was "how sweet and wonderful that she's so comforted and happy cuddled up to her mother that she falls asleep!" She nursed constantly for a while, but I tried to just enjoy the closeness and cuddle time before they slowed down. Now she's a busy toddler with little time to hug me. She still nurses but it's not quite the same, as she's so interested in the outside world. Sometimes I lay with her on the bed and cover us up with a quilt, the lack of stimulation seems to help her concentrate.

Once last thing that popped into my head was the LC saying that some babies are simply very very effecient breastfeeders, and can vacuum out a tremendous amount of milk in a very small amount of time. My sister was that way, her whole nursing career she nursed five minutes each side, no more no less. And she was a HUGE baby!

My baby is 16 days old and is a very sleepy baby. Having just come back from the clinic where she was weighed and unfortunately she had lost weight after maintaining her departure weight the week before. Following Gina's routine has been great for the sleep patterns but really wish there could have been more advice on keeping baby enthusiastic during feeds. Having read the messages from other mums, it does make me feel better to know that I don't sail the boat alone. But if there is anybody out there that can give some more advice on keeping baby awake during feeds without me (and other mums) from going stark raving mad before the first month is out.

I remember worrying so much about my ds falling asleep during feeds - I even went to see a bf counsellor. I tried tickling his feet, wiping his face with cool flannel, all sorts. But he was fine all by himself and you should see how fat he got! My little sumo! I really wish I hadn't worried so much. I am not at all sure you can keep such a tiny baby awake if they want to sleep. My ds loves sucking and finds it so soothing that it just lulled him into a blissful doze. He changed as the weeks passed all by himself.

My baby fell asleep easily too, she is now 5 months. The only advice I can give is feed regularly at least three hourly from the start of the last feed. Wake your baby up 10-15 mins before start of feed, take off all clothes and lay them on mat to wake them up. It sounds mean, but it gets results.

My dd sometimes took more from a bottle - maybe because she wasn't all warm and cuddled into me. If you feel, like I did sometimes that you were trying and trying and not getting anywhere with bf, think about expressing and giving via a bottle. At least then you can see she is getting some milk, if nothing else it can put your mind at rest. I know how hard it is, the days and nights merge into one and you feel like you are failing as you should be able to get her to feed - or at least that's how I felt! It does get better though, you are doing a great job, just keep going! Hope that helps

it's also worth changing the nappy (wakes them) then trying some more - but bythe sounds of it this is like the majority of babies. mine was like this and gained a pound in her first 10 days!

Make sure baby is not dressed too warmly, bare feet and you can gently tickle feet... you can also tickle cheek when she falls asleep. How long does she feed before she falls asleep? Do you follow GF's timing of feed and does your baby seems hungrier before the "appointed" time?

oh and it does get better - I remember wondering if it ever would!
can only second all the good advice here; But I do remember laughing at the idea of simply tickling to wake ds up/keep him awake - not even a wash in cold water would do it sometimes. In my case, I thought it was important to keep waking ds up for feeds - the first week every 4hours then later every 3 hours (I felt a bit less knackered). Without that I'm sure he would have slept much longer and perhpas had problems with weight gain etc;
Did you take any drugs during the birth that might be why he's so sleepy? I don't know anything about this really but I remember someone mentioning ages later that it might have been the drugs from my c section that kept him so dopey for a while?