is it possible to bf after 4th degree tear?

[sunshinesupermummy]

posting on behave of best friend, just given birth to a beautiful baby girl yesterday, however the birth did not go too well and she ended uo getting a 4th degree tear and having to have it repaired in the operating theater.
she is still in hospital well they both are but the midwives keep telling her that not to worry about breastfeeding as it will be too difficult for her.
don't want to be seen as bossy but is there anyone out there that can help
it is difficult to get in to see them as they are both on the high dependency unit.is this hdu the same as intensive care?

This is absolutely ridiculous - there is no reason at all why she should not be breastfeeding.

Ask if the hospital has a breast feeding co-ordinator or infact feeding advisor who can help. The baby does not need formula or donated breastmilk - she needs to be asisted to breastfeed from her mother.

The catheter should be in for a minimum of 24 hours to prevent pressure on the repair. That is usual practice.

If your friend asks to make a formal complaint you will see the staff jump!

Check if the hospital is Babyfriendly here

If it is there will be an infant feeding advisor in the hospital

Your friends experience sounds awful, I really sympathise for her I didn't have a tear but an episiostomy (sp?) which made it quite painful to bf sitting up in bed - but the mw's in the hospital were really helpful and suggested bf'ing lying down on my side, which made a huge difference... so perhaps see if you friend could try that? And then once I got out of hospital a friend brought an inflatable ring for me so that I could sit on it which also helped until the stiches healed up.

my friend really wants to and is trying really hard.she said th mw is more interested in the internet, than her and the ONE other lady in there.
is it normal for the mw to have the internet on the wards? let alone the hdu? i asked to speak to whoever was in charge and the ward sister came to speak to me. who is higher than her ?

my friend really wants to and is trying really hard.she said th mw is more interested in the internet, than her and the ONE other lady in there.
is it normal for the mw to have the internet on the wards? let alone the hdu? i asked to speak to whoever was in charge and the ward sister came to speak to me. who is higher than her ?

mears ive just checked that link and it seems as if its not baby friendly.

hardly seems patient friendly either

I had a 3rd degree repaired in theatre, catheter for 12 hours, antibiotics for a week etc.

I am still bfeeding at 6 months. I didn't get much supervision / assistance with feeding whilst I was in, but then again it was available if I needed it - I guess they just saw us getting on with it and ds took to it very well.

I agree with all the other posts regarding arnica, also distilled witch hazel dribbled onto the pad is very soothing and helps healing. If she's able to eat, then porridge for breakfast is one thing that will help with the quality of milk (and most hospital kitchens can't go far wrong with it ) and get her partner to bring in some fennel tea bags as that helps too.

I hope things get better for her, but even if her lo is on formula for the first few days, if she pumps and either uses it or dumps it will keep things ticking over for when she goes home.

PS - all hospitals have a complaints procedure so if she continues to not get the help she requests then fire off a good strong letter to the head of womens services, the chief executive, the local paper etc

PPS if your friend is happy for you to bf her lo, is there anything stopping her partner from 'taking baby out for a bit of fresh air / to see other relatives' out of the ward and you can feed it?

vole how long where you in the hospital for,when will she b able to come home ? im sure its going to be easier at home.
did they put you on the hdu? could you lift the baby out of the fishtank/crib ok.
this a big part of her problem.

I had ds 10:30pm Tuesday night and I was out Friday lunchtime. Unfortunately due to other emergencies I didn't get my repair done until 4am Wednesday.

Until the spinal wore off I had to get dh or any other passing person to lift ds out of the crib.

After that it was a case of (sorry if TMI) waiting for me to poo so they were sure that everything was working as it should do. A wadge of loo roll positioned to support the underneath was very helpful, and they put you on lactulose / fibogel to make sure everything slips out with minimum effort - but you do need to drink LOADS to assist the laxatives.

(Vole mutters something about dh who is a nurse standing there with his metaphorical whip to make sure she drank enough and made sure she took her meds, but luckily was not around to supervise pee / poo function but would have if he could have)

"porridge for breakfast is one thing that will help with the quality of milk"

What you eat has no affect on the quality of your milk.

SD I agree but I did read somewhere that there is some evidence that eating oats can help with supply of breast milk...

Ahh... quantity and quality are different things

You may be right, recalling and typing whilst wrangling a wriggling baby has probably got things confused.

Then again, maybe I used it as an excuse to enjoy those nice flapjacky oatybake bars.....

I may be feeling hormonal but your post has brought tears to my eyes. Your poor friend .

How could another human being watch someone in such distress and discomfort and ignore them. Never mind someone who is supposed to work in a "caring" profession.

Its a HIGH DEPENDENCY unit for Gods sake. She needs lots of help.

Your friend is obviously very traumatised by what has happened. 4th degree tears are not part of anyone's birth plan and aren't discussed in NCT classes (funny that). I was incredibly traumatised by the level of physical injury that happened during childbirth and felt very unprepared for that. And all the associated humiliations that went along with it vis a vis poo etc. are very shocking and distressing to have to deal with also.

You are a very good friend. You are right, you need to battle on her behalf right now as she in no condition to be demanding. IMO, they should be helping her to make BF as success if she wants to BF, as the last thing she needs is to be dealing with the birth trauma AS WELL AS feeling she has failed BF in the coming months.

Unfortunately, i have no idea who is above he ward sister. However, I have been in baby HDU and know the concept of the level of care that should be there. So getting help on demand in terms of lifting baby out of fish tank to feed and support should be there. No question.

I presume you have tried to guilt them into helping her (look, the poor girl is traumatised and very unwell etc.) and that has got no where. The two or three hospitals I have been to recently have had PALS in the reception area. Could you just march in there and tell them whats happening upstairs right now and ask for their help?

In terms of helping her BF. I had a lovely lovely lady come out to my house when I was in tears with DD1 from La leche league. I am sure if you rang them they would get someone out to the hospital to help her quickly. Those ladies are lovely and i am sure that your friend would really benefit from the one on one gentle help and excellent guidance that they give. They are a great shoulder to cry on also!

Other tips - a mw told me to eat fresh pineapple FIRST thing in the morning before anything else.. that gets things moving (i didn't poo for 5 days ).

Also, given she has been on antibiotics, if she is bf-ing its worth her starting to take acidopholus tablets (chewable ones available from Holland and Barrett!) to ensure she doesn't get thrush which will complicate her BF no end in a few weeks time.

I am so sad that people could be so heartless to such a distressing situation.

ps - on both occasions i gave birth, the midwives put my LOs beside me in the bed so we could feed lying down. They just put up the sides of the bed to prevent the baby falling out. Do these beds not have sides that you can raise?

If not, then the midwife should stay with the baby to ensure that it doesn't fall out! There is only one other lady there FFS

please see if you can help her to complain now to get the help she needs now. Mears is a midwife and as she says, if she (you on her behalf) starts to make an official complaint now, these nurses will jump to attention.

She will be out of high dependency now I would expect and transferred to a ward.

If she does not have any help forthcoming I would ask to speak to the ward manager. If no joy there ask to speak to the head of midwifery.

There is no way this is acceptable.

SSM this is a shocking tale of poor practice and insensitivity. Good on you for keeping going on your friends behalf. I bet if you got through to NCT, LLL, BFN or ABM they'd do their best to get a local BFC to see her quickly? Or do hosps bar the door to them so it doesn't expose their BF incompetence?

How is your friend sunshine?

ssm ive only just read your post
i had a baby girl 23 weeks ago
and i too ended up with a fourth degree tear, and having a spinal tap and repair operation.
i can understand totally how your friend feels, but id like to let you know it is def possible as i am still bf my dd and im really enjoying it now [after a difficult 4 months getting it all established] and lots of help from mn esp hunker, tiktoc and moondog etc.
doesnt normally take 4 months though !so dont worry about that.

i totally agree with the advice to learn how to feed lying down, its so painful sitting on your butt all day when its basically just been reconstruted [sp]
it took me about 2 weeks to get the hang of feeding lying down but it was worth perservering with.
make sure when she gets home that she takes the lactulose etc and regulary on time, she doesnt need any extra pressure on the repair, and she might feel dazed about what time it is etc, i used to write down what i was supposed to take and when.
i was on lactulose ibuprofen paractamol arnica

also at least two baths a day with lavender drops really helps.
keep sticking up for your friend, its times like this we need someone else to step up and talk up for us.
do you know when she will be coming home yet?
if she wants to post any questions to me ill be happy to tell her my experience, it might help if shes still feeling in shock.
its all still fresh in my mind
also tell her no to worry about people interfering saying only feed every 2 hours or whatever and just to feed the baby as much as the baby wants it.
its the best way to make sure bf works out

i really hope it woks out for your friend, keep posting

kitten xxxx

just wanted to let you know, my friend is finally home, at long last,shes still quite unwell bless her, unfortunatly she had to agree to mix feed so they would let her leave, but baby is only a week and a half old. this won't be too old for her to aim for ex bf will it?
thank you for all the replies.
ive passed on all the tip which has ben really helpful.
she has been told to take the lactulose for 2 weeks, but doesnt want to as its making her feel the urge to go to the loo all the time, is it normal to take it for two weeks.

we have made a formal complaint about the treatment at the hospital.