Struggling to bf 3 week old baby. Not enough milk. Hating every minute of bf :(

[Eaglebird]

I'm at my wits end.
DS was bfing ok until a recent growth spurt which started last week, when he wanted to feed again & again over a short period of time. I was absolutely worn out & couldn't take any more, so midwife & hv suggested giving him a small amount of formula when needed to top him up. I did this a couple of times (about 30ml of formula) and everything was fine.
Now DS is 3 weeks old, he seems to be a very hungry baby. He will feed for 45 mins up to an hour, and still be hungry. However, after this time my breasts are empty. I've tried expressing after a feed and nothing comes out.
DS is becoming increasingly frustrated during breastfeeds. Initially he is fine. He latches on well and sucks happily. After a while, he thrashes his head from side to side, and becomes irritable then starts screaming. When I put him to the other breast he latches on well and again sucks happiliy until (I assume) that breast also empties. After emptying both breasts he is obviously still hungry and screams for more milk, but I have no more milk to give him.
I've trid expressing durng the day, between feeds, to see if this will stimulate supply, but I'm lucky if I'm able to express 30ml each time. Usually less.
I'm becoming so upset at the problems I'm having, and at DS being so distressed. I'm hating every minute of bfing and don't know what to do for the best. Can anyone help please?

Eaglebird, you are not alone - I had the same thing with both my boys - youngest now 3 months. In the intrests of my sanity and out of sheer exhaustion i did give a formula bottle. I felt very guilty, and but my baby was much more settled. I gradually increased the formula feeds over time and my breast milk production did decrease which was fine, as eventually ds1 had a period on formula only.

I felt like I had been on holiday as I was not so tired, and he would feed beter for others with the formula, rather than EBM.

Breastfeeding can be a lifestyle choice, in public was not for me - I was sick of getting body parts out in front of strangers.

I was formula fed, as was everyone I know. We are all bright, intelligent individuals. Dont beat yourself up if you are struggling. You have to take good cae of the person that is looking after your baby - and that is YOU.

It is very difficult and I wish you all the best with your little bundle. You will work it out. Dont be too hard on yourself. It's OK to give yourself a break. x

LOL at "got washed, ironed a pair of trousers and top to wear" - Eaglebird, make you're life easier by joining the ranks of other scummy mummies like me who put sleep top of the list and spend days, nay, weeks in their PJs, answering the door with hair sticking up and boobs hanging out...

...But seriously, you do have a choice so if being presentable is more important go for it. but if you need to sleep, go to sleep and sod the washing, cleaning etc... You actually can't do it all with a BF newborn, no matter how much you want to - it's not being superwoman, it's just mad to do ironing at this point in your life! (Not ecofriendly at all but a tumbledryer helps avoid ironing a lot!)

MY dd was doing something similar to this last week. She's older, 9 weeks now, but the conclusion I have drawn from it was that she was tired and had a strong sucking reflex. So basically she wanted to suck, but was full, so was latching on, getting milk, didn't want milk, pulling off, frustrated and annoyed. She now seems to sit more often than not with a dummy stuffed in her mouth but she is sleeping better and spending a little less time crying at least! It's not something I'd choose to give her but it is helping her to be happier. I know which I'd rather!! Good luck.

I know I come on all these threads and say the same boring thing each time, and TBH your story doesn't really sound like it, but just with the thrashy-head thing, do check for tongue tie

My 2nd ds is 3 weeks tomorrow and he's just entering the growth spurt. I'm sat here now with him latched on, the shoppings still in the car and my 4 year old is wanting his tea. I too feel like he is feeding all day and am so tired so have made an executive decision that he is going to get a formula feed tonight and I refuse to beat myself up about it. I combined wih my 1st ds for 5 months and had forgotten all about it. In different stages of your child's life you worry about different things and all this means is you are being a good mother. Please don't upset yourself with 'guilt' if your baby is happy you'll be happy and that's the best situation all round. Good luck with everything and enjoy your beautiful new son and his lovely snuffly sounds! This newborn phase is amazing...but hard!

Emmy, so glad that someone else has a 3 week old DS & is in the same boat as me, not that it's a boat trip I'd particularly wish on anyone
I went to a mother & baby group today, and one of the other mothers said her DS used to do the thrashing around thing for a while, but stopped / grew out of it.
Spoke to HV who observed a feed.She confirmed I'm feeding ok and DS is latching on ok initially. Possibly the thrashing coincides with a drop in milk flow after the initial 'gush' when he first latches on, which results in DS having to 'work harder' to obtain milk after the initial let down.
I've found that when he thrashes, iff I remove him from the breast and go 'shhhhhhhh' and hold him until he calms down, then try again when he is calm, he will latch on and feed ok. I sometimes have to do this several times during a feed, but it seems to be having a good effect and I haven't had to give him any formula today.

Just a bit of history - After he was born he latched well & sucked strongly, but in the following 1-2 days he was reluctant to latch & suck. If I expressed a few drops, he would lick them from the nipple but would not latch on. Consequently I was kept in hospital for a few days until bfing became established. I expressed milk, which was fed to him via syringe, while he received 30ml formula top ups to keep him going until he latched on of his own accord. 3 days after he was born, he latched ok, and all was well. Now it seems he is slightly reverting to his initial reluctance to 'put the effort in' for a feed

Out of curiosity, today he has been feeding for shorter periods (about 20 mins per feed) instead of the 45 - 60 mins I'm used to. However he is content & is producing lots of wet nappies, and has had 3 yellow poos so far, which seems ok to me. Is is usual for feed times to vary like this?

EB as others have said one day they can be feeding ALL the time and thenext day they can manage it all in 20 mins. Seriously the more relaxed you feel the more milk you will make and the easier it will be. 3 weeks - 5 weeks was my killer time as it also combined with the blues once dh was back t work and the initial euphoria of new baby was gone

EB sounds like your LO might well have wind. (DS1 used to thrash about during a feed and it took me ages to work out he had wind -he was always fine after a burp.)
If your let down is quite strong (the milk comes down quickly) then this often causes wind.
Do you wind your DS during a feed? This might well help. This is also something which settles down after the first few weeks.
Good info on this here:
www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/baby/fussy-while-nursing.html

Agree with the wind comments. I had a feed observed and thats what the BF lady said. She gave a good piece of advice - look at his lips... they were a bit two toned... paler/white at the edge and she said that was a sign of wind. Then she employed her well practised wind strategies and sure enough... burps followed.

Also - LOL at the ironing. Neither I nor the baby wear ironed clothes at the moment!
At 3 weeks, I think if you are getting a shower everyday you are doing v.well!

Also, I agree with another comment which said that its a tough time after DP goes back to work and initial euphoria is gone. Its like reality sinks in.

Also, for what its worth just from my limited experience a 3/4 hr feed at this point would be entirely normal.

I burp DS several times during each feed, and he produces an impressive burp each time.
When he thrashes around at the breast now, I put him to the other one (which I assume has accumulated a bit more milk) and he calms down. Then when he starts thrashing at that breast I swap over again. This seems to do the trick.

i didn't figure out how to do the having a wash and getting dressed each day thing for ages! nor eating. then i realised i can eat while dd feeds, though yes she'd get a crumby head! she used to only sleep on me as well, after each feed. so i'd be marooned on the sofa for hours at a time doing nothing at all but feed her and hold her. then, without making an effort with anything, the feeds turned into 3 or 4 hourly, the naps took a routine, and i had time inbetween these bits to DO things. honestly, it will pass

Poor you, i really sympathise, it is hard, and i had an extremely sucky baby with DD1.

A couple of things helped me to manage some sleep in the day when she slept. I used to try and get me shower before DH left the house, and dressed too if possible. I also used to make my lunch sandwich, drink etc the night before and put it in the fridge, so I could just grab it and retire to the sofa for more bfing.

I also used to rush around doing the washing etc in her morning sleep, and force myself to sleep or rest during her afternoon sleep. If you can manage to get a bit of rest, it will make the bf'ing feel a bit easier.

Hi EB, does sound to me too like wind- thats exactly how my LO behaves when needs winding, head thrashing side to side etc, can take AGES to get her wind up, try holding him lying prone on your forearmwhile rubbing his back

Also, when he wakes up crying/starts to cry do try other things before assuming he's hungry...I mean, change his nappy, have a good go at winding him, get DH/someone else who doesnt smell of milk to cuddle him, see if he settles...sorry thats probably really obvious...but with my LO I think I tended to stick the boob in without really being sure that she was hungry, cos I was too tired to do anything else, but then half the time she would happily suck for comfort for a minute or so then start crying again, so I would have her perpetually snacking on foremilk and comfort sucking which didnt help overall. It is very hard to know when they are hungry and when not, for instance if he feeds for 40 mins or so whilst getting progressively sleepier then conks out altogether, then 20 mins later wakes up crying, how do you know that he doesnt want to complete a feed that he fell asleep during, or did he have a full feed and just wants to cry/be winded/cuddled......... Well I still dont know the answer but I think half the time its just guesswork- no make that all the time.....

I am still bf'ing at 5/12, and we did give formula for the last feed before midnight from 3 - 6 weeks, because I was too tired to last without a few hours consecutive sleep, I would sleep from 9-10 ish till baby then woke at 2-3 ish. We stopped that system at 6 wks cos DD slept through and I felt much better. But it didnt cause any problems with supply, I know youre not supposed to do it but there you go!

But yes, comfort sucking, I have since learnt that there are very few discomforts in my babies life that cannot be temporarily eased by a few minutes sucking- dirty nappies, wind- it is confusing if you are using 'Will he suck now' as the test for 'is he hungry?'. Instead test his hunger by 'Will he settle after a nappy change/wind/cuddle?"

Hi Eaglebird
Well done on getting this far! You have b'fed for a lot longer than many women manage and that's great news for your DS.

I know it's really tough. I gave up b'feeding DD1 at 11 weeks because of issues similar to those you describe. I was convinced I didn't have enough milk and that the fact I was feeding constantly meant there was something wrong. I am now b'feeding DD2 (9 weeks) and it is still tough at times, she does a lot of thrashing about with wind as well and I am trialling Colief with her at the moment because she is often in pain after a feed. I doubt myself regularly (is my technique right, is she feeding too often, should I be drinking coffee yada yada....)

However, this time I am not planning to switch to FF because I discovered last time that it didn't sort the wind problems (those eventually went with time when DD1 was able to roll around and shift her trapped wind herself) and in fact it was more hassle overall (making up bottles and getting them to the right temp at 3am is a particular nightmare). I regretted giving up b'feeding DD1 (for practical as well as emotional reasons!) but couldn't get my supply back.

As others have said, 3 wks is notoriously difficult and if you can just ride it out, you might find that the problems iron themselves out.... take it a day at a time and remember there are a lot of us out there going through the same stuff in the wee hours.

lol
p

Life goes round in circles - I'm back where I was when I posted my original query
DS was bfing well without a hitch these past few days, but now he's started thrashing around again after an initial good latch & suck at each breast.
It's deffo not wind. I burp him regularly during feeds, and he brings up his wind ok each time. Yesterday after feeding & thrashing for over an hour I was worn out & gave him some expressed milk, and he gobbled it down, and was then content & fell asleep.
Just going to try to ride it out & muddle through.

Oh dear, sounds like things are getting difficult again. Do you feed him from one breast per feed, do you swap over, and after how long? I think you have to be sure to stay on the one breast for a good long time so he gets the hindmilk. It still does sound like wind to me - sorry- but breastfed babies seem to get less wind in general, I dont really bother winding my LO, unless she starts thrashing'gets pale upper lip- and then it can be really entrenched and difficult to get up when she does get it.

Also, this didnt happen for me till DD was 10 weeks but maybe your baby is doing this early- DD went from being content to feed amywhere/oblivious to her surroundings- to being a baby that can often only be fed lying on our bed. She just became more aware of her surroundings, likes her familiar liitle nest, screams, arches, thrashes if I try to feed her out and about- in say a cafe with people coming and going this would be at its worst. On a sofa in a quiet corner at someone elses house/in car- I might get away with a partial feed.

How often are you feeding him now? Is he having another big hunger/growth spurt?