Why are BF rates so low in the UK?

[LastNerve1]

Compared to other parts of the world, e.g the Scandinavian countries. And why is the level of BF knowledge sometimes so low/inadequate amongst HVs/midwives? Just curious.

@MrsPsmalls

Nothing to do with support in my opinion.lots of women don't want to sacrifice their body or their life to a child anymore than necessary and I don't blame them . Much easier if dad or the GPS can feed as well. Also we don't value extended bf. We as a rule think it is weird. We do value slim women who are back in jeans six days after giving birth and back running marathons six weeks after that.

I thought breastfeeding helped to do this. You feel muscle contractions as you feed

@woodhill
Yeah, but then there's the biscuit eating whilst feeding 😉

And it's a lot easier for a woman who is FF to go to the gym, or pop out for a run, or go on a fairly drastic diet if she wants to.

Definitely makes you hungry

Personally I think a lot of women don't really want to breastfeed that much, but they feel obligated to give it a go. If it doesn't work out, or problems arise they're not that bothered and get the formula out.
Myself and most of the mothers I knew were like that. I tried it for a couple of weeks, didn't get on with it, and went on to formula. I formula fed my two younger ones right from birth.
I don't think I was offered any support, but I wouldn't have wanted it anyway.

In times gone by, women stayed in hospital for two weeks as standard and spent that time getting to grips with breastfeeding.
Before then, generations loved together or very close by and grandma would take over and support.

Now the aim is to get women back home asap and you're encouraged to be out and about, living a 'normal' life with your hair done very quickly. Grandma can't come and take over because she works full time. This is not conducive to breastfeeding.

I am currently stuck underneath a 12 day old who has been breastfeeding for 7 straight hours. This is made possible really because my DH is on paternity and can pick DS up from nursery, bring me food and drinks etc. What do I do when his two weeks are up?

Also baby has tongue tie. I have been referred but could take weeks. I've googled around trying to find somewhere to do it privately but again we're looking at weeks. I'm in pain.

I want to breastfeed but damn... it's so tempting to just pack it in!

@LongLiveGoblingKing

In times gone by, women stayed in hospital for two weeks as standard and spent that time getting to grips with breastfeeding. Before then, generations loved together or very close by and grandma would take over and support.

Now the aim is to get women back home asap and you're encouraged to be out and about, living a 'normal' life with your hair done very quickly. Grandma can't come and take over because she works full time. This is not conducive to breastfeeding.

I am currently stuck underneath a 12 day old who has been breastfeeding for 7 straight hours. This is made possible really because my DH is on paternity and can pick DS up from nursery, bring me food and drinks etc. What do I do when his two weeks are up?

Also baby has tongue tie. I have been referred but could take weeks. I've googled around trying to find somewhere to do it privately but again we're looking at weeks. I'm in pain.

I want to breastfeed but damn... it's so tempting to just pack it in!

I'm sorry to hear about the TT, I know it can be hard to find someone who will deal with it. In my experience though once it's dealt with it makes a huge difference to his feeding goes.

Have you tried using the association of tongue tie practitioners website to see if someone can help you?

www.tongue-tie.org.uk/find-a-practitioner/

I heard that infant formula is only available on prescription in Sweden. I don't think its true though.

Women know breast feeding is better for their baby, but there are two people in this relationship, mum is important as well and so breast feeding has to work for her too.
As for why we have such poor rates, I would say it was cultural above everything else.

@MrsPsmalls

Totally agree with you. BF is completely at odds with modern day expectations on “yummy mummies”

We’re supposed to be back in our skinny jeans, socialising with friends, back at the gym, in our slinky work clothes again within months.

Laying on the sofa cluster feeding, after waking every two hours every night for the last 4 months is not compatible with that.

BF helped my uterus contract back to its original position within days but it did not help with weight loss or motivation to lose the weight.

@LongLiveGoblingKing
DS outgrew the tongue tie, or rather it's effect on breastfeeding before he had it snipped. Referred at 6 weeks, op at 10 weeks, so somewhere in between. Until then he was continually breaking suction, then suddenly he was fine.

I had the tongue tie snipped anyway rather than wait and see if it affected speech later on.

You can guarantee this topic has been done to death!

I had a horrific bfing experience with DS1, and much nicer this time with DS2.

Ds1 breastfeeding stopped because:

• bfing put him in hospital, and I had a choice of expressed milk or formula to make him well again, and whyTAF would I put my child through more trauma forcing him to the breast, when I could give him a bottle and he would get better?!

• I only stopped pumping with him due to shite advice from the dietician. If she had identified his CMPA once he’d gone to formula, I would have mix fed (pumped and formula) long term.

With DS2, I’m exclusively pumping, however we got a nice few direct feeds in when he was born which was so nice to experience. I gave up putting him to breast because:

• I couldn’t bear the screaming from him trying to get him to latch, and I found it very stressful. You’re sold an image of babies just latching and suckling and always being content. I found no joy in trying to get a red faced angry fuming baby on the boob.

• I’ve since clocked that he’s meant to latch to my boob rather than nipple... I think this ties in with lack of family/friends/older generation. My mum FF, and while I know a lot of breast feeders, none are close to me. I think if I’d had someone very experienced helping, it would have made a difference (and not a breastfeeding consultant just repeating “NIPPLE TO NOSE” in various tones). Just that reassurance of “yes this is normal, it passes, keep on” etc.

• we did a mix of bottle fed pumped milk and direct feeds for a few weeks, but his silent reflux was always horrific when direct feeding. I could only get him to latch lying down or in cradle hold which was awful for him and he’d just scream and scream while trying to feed. He then started rejecting the breast and refusing to go on at all (I assume he began associating it with pain?) (yes tried all the tricks and other holds)

So this time, I had researched exclusively pumping, got the equipment and made sure I could give him breastmilk, even if it’s not the conventional way of doing it.

So I guess for me, it was a mix of crap advice, sterile knowledge (so just saying what is trained/allowed), and no real motherly/grandmotherly wisdom.

I don't think it's even fully to do with lack of support. The women I know that didn't breast feed to 6 months stopped because they wanted to be able to share the feeding with someone else, either so they could get more sleep or go out without the baby.
And all said they were actually much happier once they've stopped and enjoyed their baby more.
I also agree with pp that the research doesn't actually align with what we're told by midwives and health visitors and it's very easy to find this out. I did my research last time and although I did BF to 4 months the research I looked at didn't actually say there would be greater benefits so I found it really de-motivating. At NCT classes they told us that breast feeding was linked to reduced rates of obesity and illness etc. but when I went away and did my own research none of these studies could exclude income or education of the parents as factors in these outcomes.
There might have been a greater benefit to breast feeding than formula at a time when people didn't know how to prepare bottles safely or in countries where the water isn't clean but I'm not sure there is now.

One reason is lack of investment in support services - a few areas have adequate funded breastfeeding support, but most don't. A couple of drop-in groups, potentially run by volunteers, doesn't cut it. Imagine if there were breastfeeding drop-ins open all day every day, with properly paid trained staff. Where you could also get a home visit if you needed it. There are many (charity trained) breastfeeding counsellors who would like to make it a full time paid job, but that generally doesn't exist. Similarly, lactation consultants in this country are largely only able to do private practice work, which many people can't afford... so they too can't usually make a full-time living from their breastfeeding work.

Because the thought of cluster feeding on top of everything else I have to do makes me shudder

People can be really icky about breastfeeding here and I hate it. Education on it is shockingly poor and often family support is severely lacking.

I love that formula is an option for mums who just don't want to (100% valid IMHO) or the minute percentage of women who genuinely can't do it (not just given shit advice so failed to do it).

I did because I knew it was the best thing I could do for my child. I'm lucky I had support from DH and DM to keep me going. Of my friendship and mum group, only one other mum has done it for as long as I have and we were all as staunch in our views to start off with. Return to work, family pressure, logistics all play a part and it's so inconvenient I can see why people transition to formula early on.

If there was a magical way to make it painless and it was something all babies were actually competent at doing I think rates would be higher.

Many are blaming the lack of government body support but do the countries which have high numbers for BF have these support services? I can’t imagine many do (especially outside Europe).
I think we just don’t see it as normal anymore, as a culture, and it just doesn’t fit in with what we now deem to be important (getting back to “normal” within weeks).

You know, I'm expecting my first child and I assumed I would be able to breastfeed. Having spoken with my obstetrician and midwife it might not be an option for me because of my medical history. I'm going to try, but I take the view that a fed baby and a happy mum is more important, I think most people agree. I'm not putting my health or my baby's health at risk just to say "I breastfed my baby".

My own view is because prenatal and labour care is so so poor and women end up at home, utterly exhausted after terrible care in hospital and can’t manage it

That’s not really the point here though pur

Many people have a slight preference but don’t really mind. That’s fine and they should do what they feel most comfortable doing.

However I’m not a ‘happy mum.’ I wanted to breastfeed.

For me personally, because it was so difficult and lack of support. Breast reduction meant I have a low supply, had to introduce formula. Then once fed from a bottle refused breast. Then ended up pumping every 2 hours and getting stupid amounts - not sustainable. Local resources swamped and couldn't get an appointment for weeks to help get baby back on breast. My mum and mil both formula fed so no support there. It saved my sanity to switch to formula full time. We are lucky we have the resources to safely use formula and make up feeds. At the same time though, had I not had breast surgery I would have wanted nothing more than to breast feed properly.

I had my baby in a part of the U.K. with high BFing initiation rates and many of my friends/colleagues BF long term. I BF to 3.5 years but regret doing this. It was utterly miserable - piling on of pressure antenatally and postnatally, huge focus on keeping women BFing to the detriment of their mental health, HCPs prioritising BFing over everything else (this resulted in my baby becoming seriously ill with hypernatraemic dehydration).
It's partly the way it's promoted - all or nothing with any amount of formula demonised. It's really really bigged up antenatally and made to sound amazing (the misrepresentation of the actual evidence and figures for its benefits was appalling - I did an NHS BFIng antenatal class and women left it convinced they wouldn't get breast cancer if they BF. The actual risk reduction is from 12.5 to 12% if you BF longer than six months), along with natural, free/cheap, cluster feeding is a lovely snuggly bonding experience etc. Then you start doing it, and are plunged into this hellish world of zero sleep, all the responsibility for feeding lies on you, it's actually rather expensive and there are no end of problems (hello trip to the breast cancer clinic to have a galactocele aspirated!).
If 'they' genuinely wanted to increase BFIng rates then what they need to do is ensure women can rest and recover from birth - which means much better staffed postnatal wards with HCPs to take care of the babies and mums and emphasis on rest and sleep, provide much more practical support within the community (home helps, meals delivered etc) for the first couple of months, stop demonising formula and instead support women to supplement if they need to whether for baby's weight gain or mum's mental health.

Then you start doing it, and are plunged into this hellish world of zero sleep, all the responsibility for feeding lies on you, it's actually rather expensive and there are no end of problems
This is another of the comments that I find really unhelpful when they are presented like this as a universal experience. I am sorry that you found it "hellish" but this is not a given. It can be difficult, it can have lots of problems but it isn't everyone's experience.

I never found it hellish and certainly not expensive. Where's the expense? And I had no problems after about the first week once it became established.

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

Many are blaming the lack of government body support but do the countries which have high numbers for BF have these support services? I can’t imagine many do (especially outside Europe). I think we just don’t see it as normal anymore, as a culture, and it just doesn’t fit in with what we now deem to be important (getting back to “normal” within weeks).

In countries where there is still a very high breastfeeding rate you do not need as many support services because women get support from their mothers, aunts, sisters and other women who have had children. Everyone breastfeeds, so everyone knows how it works. They are not constantly being bombarded with messages and comments like "how many oz is she taking?" "doesn't he sleep through the night yet?!" "it's dangerous to have them in your bed!" "she's too old for that" "breastfeeding mums feed in public for attention, it's so unnecessary" "he can't be hungry again!!" "you need to put him down so he doesn't get spoiled" etc etc ad nauseum.

Also I assume you are talking about lower income countries. In these places women tend to have many babies, almost every woman has babies, and so the topic of breastfeeding is much more familiar. In middle income countries where the birth rate has fallen and this woman to woman support is not as prevalent you do see lower bf rates again. Lower than the UK normally. It starts to go up again once you have the medical support in place, this is what is needed to replace that traditional mother to mother support and needs to get in fast before predatory marketing from formula companies.

Also of course in countries which are very poor and have a higher birth rate the infant mortality rate tends to be higher as well. In fact infant mortality is the best predictor of birth rate. Part of this will be to do with lack of safe options for when breastfeeding doesn't work out. Family members wet nursing is an option, but babies may also be fed unsuitable or unsterile foods which contribute to malnutrition and infant mortality. Just like the UK in times gone by. It's not always a utopia.

It’s definitely not expensive compared to formula feeding though. People may need to buy a pump I suppose but the rest really isn’t necessary (feeding clothes etc). I know some people who were spending £40 per month plus. Even with cheaper product it’s an enormous chunk of a family food budget and in the U.K. it’s the poorest women who are most likely to formula feed. With food poverty such a massive issue it leads to people watering down milk, even with healthy start vouchers. There was a gov report a few years back on the cost of formula and it’s impact. The industry needs stricter regulation still. There is absolutely no reason why one brand costs £9 per tub and one £6. Parents are paying for the cost of marketing, the product is dirt cheap to produce. It’s ridiculous.

In countries where there is still a very high breastfeeding rate you do not need as many support services because women get support from their mothers, aunts, sisters and other women who have had children. Everyone breastfeeds, so everyone knows how it works. They are not constantly being bombarded with messages and comments like "how many oz is she taking?" "doesn't he sleep through the night yet?!" "it's dangerous to have them in your bed!" "she's too old for that" "breastfeeding mums feed in public for attention, it's so unnecessary" "he can't be hungry again!!" "you need to put him down so he doesn't get spoiled" etc etc ad nauseum.

Yeah that’s my point. It’s not normalised here and the expectation we have on mums is not compatible.