Need encouragement....10 weeks of sleep deprivation building up and formula looks soooo tempting

[dal21]

Hi everyone

DS is 10 weeks old and have been exclusive breastfeeding. Always knew I wanted to bfeed and was very lucky in having fab midwives who helped me get the hang of it all.

I really want to exclusive bfeed for 6 months also - but am surrounded by friends whose LO's are now starting to sleep 10.30-7 (formula fed) and I have hit a brick wall.

All I keep thinking is

• I can have my body back and exercise without worrying about impact on milk supply
• can drink alcohol (pretty much still abstaining as am concerned about alcohol and bfeeding)
• can leave DS with family and not worry about expressing etc
• most importantly - he is more likely to start sleeping longer stretches.

Bad mummy

I know there are many downsides to formula, that there are no guarantees that formula feeding will guarantee any longer sleeping patterns etc etc. DH has been doing dreamfeed already for 5 weeks with EBM...if there are any other tips that could help, let me know.

I just need encouragement to get through the next month or so (from mid dec onwards, lots of family will be on hand again to help). I really want to persevere with bfeeding and with a much more positive mindset towards it than i have now.

My dd never slept through until well let me see she was about 3 I think. DS slept through at 11 weeks old. I think a small baby going 3 hours between feeds is fantastic whether formula or bf actually. DD started bf but ended up formula fed and like I say she never slept through reliably until she was nearly a year and even then continued waking at night often until about 2.5/3.
DS who was exclusively bf slept well very early on and in fact he never had anything but bm until he was 9 months old he just wasn't interested in solids until then and he is a wee chunk.

And you know what most of these mothers are fabricating something along the way yes their babies may sleep all night say 4 nights out of 7 but I bet they still have their fair share of sleepless nights.

Formula is not the magic solution i'm afraid and the only guarentee that you will have no mroe sleepless nights with it si if you get someone else to feed it to him in the night because babies have tiny tummies and are made to feed little and often whatever they are eating.

You sound like you are doing a fantastic job and you have to do what is right for you in the end but the suggestion that bf babies don't sleep all night is untrue and the sloids at 5 weeks well is all I can say to that.

You are doing fantastically well - nothing worthwhile comes easily. I am not convinced that sleeping has all that much to do with formula - DD slept 10pm-7am from 6 weeks, exclusively BF. Can't talk with any great authority, but it seems that they either sleep or they don't - it has more to do with tiredness and personality. If you continue, you will be so proud of yourself - every week that goes by, you are giving your DS the best nutrition.

As for alcohol - it wouldn't be a disaster if you gave formula once in a while if you want a drink - in the grand scheme of things, one bottle or so per week isn't going to hurt(formula, not voddie for you!). I had so much trouble with tongue-tie and BF that I became a bit too manically anti-formula - now feeling more chilled in general, I think there really is nothing wrong with it.

Closing thought - a happy mum is all your DS needs - take some of the pressure off yourself.

Hi,

Yup - agree with everything (except for the babyrice bit! ) but on exercise: why aren't you exercising? If it's because of worries about breastmilk, I don't think there's any reason not to, since most views I've seen say only extreme exercise causes a problem. And same with alcohol...

With both, I'd suggest you go for trial and error! Go for a run (now getting the time and energy is another matter) and see how it goes - if he's fine, go for another. If he screams next day or that day, still go for another (one example doesn't make a pattern) and see if it is the running that makes a difference.

I'm the same with alcohol. I can have a glass of wine without too much prob. With two, I've discovered, baby gets a bit grumpy and cluster feeds more next day (oops!). But I can drink a guinness without too much problem. I make sure I drink lots of water as well and as others have said, make sure it's just after a feed. Obviously getting blind p*ed and falling over is an issue but one or two drinks you'll probably be fine

FWIW my very good friend who FF her baby didn't get a nights sleep until she was two. Mine BF and woke at the same time (4am) whether or not they were being fed for between 8m-4 years... The older one, now 8 still wakes at 4 sometimes, but just comes in the bed with us sometimes or now reads; the younger one slept through from 8 months when weaning.

...and unfortunately for all your mates who have sleepers, reality will kick in in a few weeks when teeth start coming in or they get their first cold! >

88kjs - well done you! you must feel so very proud! i will keep the co-sleeping in mind - but DS is such a noisy sleeper (moved him out of our room at 5 weeks); we all (including DS) sleep heaps better when he is in his nursery. Plus I like cuddling DH - dont intend to let DS get all my cuddles! Plus dont enjoy feeding lying down.

Piemama - i do agree ff is not the end of the world. DS had it when in hospital for 2 days before my milk came in as he was 5lbs 1oz and we decided we didnt want him to lose too much of his birth weight, so its not as though he is a 'pure' baby - he has had FF. But obv. longer term use of FF could impact supply and that is another concern of mine.

Monkeybird - LOL at your post. I am trying not to think about growth spurts/ teething (esp on nips, ouch!).

Sorry didn't read all the posts and I know you have had lots of advice. I was at the exact same stage as you, can remember crying in kitchen at 3am telling dh I was going to givr hime formula ( was about 10 weeks) By the time he was 12 weeks he was sleeping through! Well bed at 7.30ish dreamfeed at 11 and slept until about 6ish - was heaven for me! I found feeding him slightly earlier about 6.30 meant he took a full feed at 11pm and didn't need a top up at 2/3am.

I also went to baby massage from 11 weeks and I swear it helped, and I am no earth mother plus met lovely mums, who I still meet once a week and bubs is now 19 months!

Don't feel pressurised or guilty! and rot about bf babies not sleeping I think on average they take about 2 weeks longer to sleep through if I remember nct book, but think of all the extra goodness your giving your baby, your doing a fantastic job and don't forget it!

Another benefit to bf is don't need to cart all extra stuff with you, bottles, water, formula, yopu just take your boobs and your set to go. Please leave weaning for as long as poss, I started at 17 weeks as ds stopped sleeping and I thought it would help (it didn't) and its a pain in the bum all that chopping, sterilising and having to be prepared when you go out!

Good Luck, it gets easier I promise, I expected to last six weeks bf and only gave up when ds was a year, take it a week at a time.

xxx

Sorry about all spelling errors and lack of puntuaction!
xx

Hi Dal. That is complete rubbish about babies not sleeping through on breast milk alone. All babies are different and what they are fed isn't the only cause of whether they will or won't sleep through. DD was huge baby, which makes her slightly different. About 10 days ago, we had a ten day stretch of her sleeping from 10-7/8.

I was delighted. It didn't last.

We had a couple of more unsettled nights. Then a few horrible days where she just seemed to scream all day. Have come to the conclusion that she is a light sleeper and is tired, frequently disturbed by my over exuberant 3 yr old. Every evening since she was about 2 weeks old she has been screaming. The past two nights we tried putting her to bed following a bath and a feed at about 7.30. She has then slept through both nights till 5, with a dream feed at around 10.30. One waking a night I can deal with! She is exclusively BF and 7.5 weeks. However, she also weighs 13.5lbs now!! Which I've been led to believe can have an impact on their sleeping.

Can your DH perhaps not do a dreamfeed and just do one feed overnight with your EBM? Then perhaps you may get a little more sleep. Please don't wean yet, it isn't the solution at this young age. Are you getting any naps during the day? Is baby in your room? I find that just plucking DD out of her moses basket , feeding and then putting back dosen't disturb me much. I doze while she is feeding.have you seen the 101 reasons to BF? Motivation for you!

www.notmilk.com/101.html

Just seen your posts about not lying down feeding. Do you mean with baby next to you? I prop myself upright with some pillows and feed her in the 'normal' position. Do you think you are probably getting more disturbed having to get up to him in another room? I find that DD is reassured by our presence and sleeps better. Just some thoughts!

i think i will try the dreamfeed 30 mins later and move the top up feed pre bed forward a little and see if those changes make any difference.

I do laugh at how much hope us new mums hold out for this magic 12 week mark! can i swap DS if he doesnt start sleeping through by then!

Lol@Dal21
I think there is a section on Ebay for "children that don't do what I expected!" they are however priceless so no-one ever bids..

floss - thanks for that link - never seen it before! going into his nursery is most definitely waking us up more - but it is a no win situation. he wakes us when he sleeps too with his grunts and grizzles.

dal21 - have not read all the posts but would say the following to encourage you

-you have established bfeeding really well and it is such a good way to comfort a baby regardless of what the problem is, if you are tired you can just sit on the sofa with LO and give a long bfeed. If LO has a bottle, it may be necked in 5 minutes so not much peace (my friends baby could do a decent sized bottle in about 1 minute)!
-my LO was bfed til just after 1st bday. Then went onto cows milk. He STILL does not sleep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DAL21. I could have written your post. LO is 19 weeks now and is waking up 11 and then again at 3 or 4 and then at 5 or 6. BF also.

I am thrilled to be able to BF. I know I am lucky (I couldn't first time around) so I am reluctant to stop in the vain hope it might make him sleep better. He has other issues (not eating properly during the day) so for me its not BF alone.

I agree with the co-sleeping. I take him in at 3am and then its not soooo bad.

I am also a runner. For my sanity (and my waistline), I have started again. I double up on the sports bra. And am getting out twice a week. Not ideal... but its saved me. I haven't noticed any major impact on feeding either. Mentally, I feel so much better being able to go out running again. Its made me much happier and this combined with co-sleeping is making the broken sleep just about bearable.

I am also partial to the odd glass of bubbly! And that has done no harm.

Happy running, drinking and BF-ing!

Sorry, I haven't read all of the other replies but just wanted to say (as others have) that it certainly isn't true that exclusively bf babies don't sleep through, both mine slept 7pm to 7am from about 9 weeks and were both exclusively bf. I know that probably doesn't make you feel any better right now, but my point is that babies sleep through in their own time irrespective of whether they are being breastfed or given formula. 10 weeks is still very little. Also you'll be surprised how babies suddenly turn a corner and sleep through when you've just about given up all hope and are in despair!

I think the reason that people sometimes find formula helps with sleeping is that your milk supply is at its lowest around the 10pm feed and if the supply is too low then giving a formula feed works well - but a bottle of EBM will do exactly the same job as a bottle of formula, it's just a case of ensuring that the baby gets the quantity of milk it needs at that time I think, so since you are already doing that I doubt you'd find formula would help.

You are doing a great job. It is exhausting and so hard while you are living it, but when you look back you'll think of this stage being over in a flash.

Alcohol: (bad mother alert) I wouldn't have survived without a glass of wine after the monsters were put to bed. Alcohol does go into your milk but it leaves your milk at the same rate that it leaves your blood stream, so that's about a unit an hour.

Hello - my ds is 6 mo, mixed fed (he has 2 or 3 formula bottles a day) AND on solids, and he still doesn't sleep through ! Whereas my two dds both slept through by 4 mo, so it really does depend on the child. The reason I started mixed feeding was because it was taking so long to express pathetic amounts, and I've got the other two dc needed attention, so it seemed sensible to switch to formula and ditch the dreaded expressing. But you can't beat bf at night - I actually don't mind doing it, its easier than trotting downstairs to get a bottle, and it is good bonding time. But then, he probably my last so think there may be a bit of me hanging on to his babyness for as long as poss !

Hi dal, haven't read all your replies yet, but wanted to reassure you that exclusively bf babies can and do sleep through. Ds1&2 both did. Ds1 at about 2mths old and ds2 at about 3mths old. It just happened for them both. One night they were feeding 3hrly, next they forgot to wake up for one feed and then a few days later they slept through until I woke them. The only diffence from you that I can gather, is that I didn't settle them down into their cots until about 10 or 11ish - whenever I last fed them. Also, I never had set times for feeding, just did it when they wanted it combined with when I got round to it. Am doing the same with ds3 now (also exclusively bf). He isn't sleeping through yet (week older than your ds), but I've got a feeling it won't be long. We've had several days where I've been really, really busy and he has gone up to about 7 hours before waking for a feed. If he can go that long during the day, it won't be long before he does it at night. But please don't think that a bf baby won't ever sleep through, they do. Promise!

thanks all! he is starting to take more in his feeds during the day - feeding from both breasts now and for longer, so milk intake is defo on the increase. Fingers crossed he turns the magic corner soon - otherwise may go hunt out that ebay section jent alludes too!

Trimum - think I need to get out and start running again and keep an eye on supply. gonna cost me a fortune in sports bras though as my norks are HUGE!

Am really reassured that the sleeping through thing can happen on bfeeding alone. and also have to indulge in the odd glass of vino methinks. Otherwise if I go for no. 2 sooner rather than later, alcohol abstinence will stretch into years!

To make you feel better: my friend's LO slept through from 10-7 from 12 weeks who was excl bf. It can be done!! She would express first thing in morning and give it to baby at 10pm so she could have a glass of wine with dinner!!
My LO didn't sleep through until 7.5 mths, and he had a bottle of formula at 10.30pm every night from about 12wks. I bf all other feeds until 6 mths, and then moved to doing morning and pre-bed bfs only. He dropped his middle of the night feeds at about 6mths, but was still waking up at about 5am and needed resettling.
So, moral of the story is that bottles don't make baby sleep through.
Second moral is that as soon as they start sleeping through, they start teething and you have them up at night again (like mine is now at 10mth!!)

Hi Dal21
I know where you're coming from. I'm starting to feel similar with DS2. He's coming up 5 months and still wakes in the night whereas DS1 slept through 7-7 from 4 months. Same Mum, same milk!!
The tiredness is starting to really get to me but I had to give up at 5 months to go back to work with DS1. I sooooo missed it and even tried to go back again, but he was too used to bottles by then. I keep reminding myself how amazing it is for me and him to have such close time to bond and how much I missed it with DS1. Yes, it was less tiring but also less cuddles!!!
I think it's his way of getting attention as DS1 is 2 1/2 and gets so much during the day. Also some of my friends with BF babies still aren't sleeping through.
Keep going ... you're doing great!!

One thing I have noticed dal, and it's not just me but most of my ante natal group have noticed it too. A glass of wine a night has helped my milk supply no end... the bfc I saw said it's because it relaxes me and that helps milk supply immensly. I'm sure you can have a glass or two without causing any problems.

hi mrsm - it is terrible, but the reason i am not drinking is because of my mother. I cannot say a bad word about her- she has been an immense source of strength and support throughout my pregnancy and now that DS is here - she just has strong feelings about alcohol and bfeeding and it is the only thing she has let her views be known on. If I even think about a drink - I hear her voice in my head. Then think about the fellow mnetter who posted on here about expressing blue breastmilk after drinking a blue wicked alcopop. (still LOL at that story).

I hate hearing my mothers voice in my head... Know completely what you mean. Suspect in this case though that voice might fade around half way through that first glass!

lol floss - if i get to the stage of being awake enough to enjoy a glass of vino after putting DS down to sleep at 7.30, i'll let you know. right now - ovaltine rocks at that time!
the good news is that I seem to have got over the bad few days I was having last week. am sure I will feel a little down again at some point, but the great news is that the temptation to cave to formula has passed. mainly thanks to all of your support.

thanks lovely mnetters!

Hiya dal, haven't read all the replies but just wanted to pop in and show my support and encourage you. You're doing amazingly well and you're bound to find it hard not to give in and prepare a bottle at times.

Keep going, you can do it!!!

PLP xxx