Low collustrum - can't hand express

[NotAgain77]

Hi - my baby is 2 days old. I started hand expressing at 36 weeks and got some small amounts of collustrum which stupidly I didn't harevst I then got admitted to hospital and put on a lot of medication for complecations and since then I got nothing from hand expressing.

Fast forward to day 1 of babies life and I am advised when he is 12 hours old that my supply is low so I need to top up with formula. I resisted until 24 hours when I was told it is in the clinical needs of my child to give him a top up. So I did but by cup. I have a feeding plan involving putting him on the boob, trying to get a feed and then if I can't topping him up with a cup and then sitting on a pump for 15 mins to stimulate my supply.

I've just had to give him 15 ms of formula as he hasn't weed for a while. I did this by syringe but was advised this was pointless and I should do it by bottle. The feeding specialists don't see to be able to decide on the best way to give the formula.

Baby still seemed hungry after the formula so I tried to latch him onto the boob, but now he's not interested. Even though he does some to be rooting. My fear is he is only interested in formula now and the easy mode of delivery.

I battled to breastfeed my firsf son for 6 weeks and didn't manage it. Which I still regret.

Any advice?

Thanks @shouldistop I have spent the day hand expressing on and off. It's been a marathon. I collected some in a cup to feed as I couldn't get a latch onto these rugby ball boobs. And then have had it spilling from me for half the day.

The actual breast feeding today has been tough. The latch has been elusive but I did spray milk when I hand expressed which I see as a positive sign of things to come.

Midwife came out today and was totally confused as to why I'd been put on a feeding plan or told to use formula. She was lovely and said it sounded like I'd been doing really well. These positive comments from her and the lovely posters on here have really helped. I am possibly too hard on myself.

Managed to get a latch this evening 12midnight-ish and he fed for 10 mins, taking himself off. But was then rooting again after 30 mins. Could that be an issue with latch quality? Or is this him feeding to up my supply?

@Shezlon that is so interesting that you were told 1ml is good. I am still very baffled by the recommended volumes.

@EarringsandLipstick thank you! It has been a joy being home. DH has been amazingly supportive and it's been wonderful to be back with DC1 who I missed terribly. He has grown up massively. I have managed to get one breast feeling more normal through hand expressing - I can't leave them as is or I have no nipples! The other breast is still pretty hard and uncomfortable. But I will keep persevering. I have a haakaa arriving tomorrow so hoping that may help a little. Just to take some out to get a nipple for latching

I breastfed for 2.5 years. I was NEVER able to hand express. But the baby obviously got loads out! The only suggestion I can make is to let the baby feed more often. 15 minutes every 3 hours isn’t enough. They can feed almost constantly. I used to sit on the sofa watching Netflix and I had a baby almost permanently attached to my breast. Even if the baby isn’t getting any milk, he’s getting comfort from sucking, and the sucking will stimulate your milk supply.

Managed to get a latch this evening 12midnight-ish and he fed for 10 mins, taking himself off. But was then rooting again after 30 mins.
It sounds like you’re expecting your baby to feed like a formula fed baby. One big feed then nothing for 3-4 hours. That’s not what breastfed babies do - they feed little and often. It’s perfectly normal for a breastfed baby to have a short feed then want more half an hour later. Sometimes they want to suck when they’re not even hungry just because babies find it comforting to suck.

If your breasts are hard then they’re obviously really full of milk which is good. To begin with you will find that your body doesn’t know how much milk to produce. The more you pump it out, the more your body will think the milk is being used and will make more. Whereas if you leave it your body will realise the milk isn’t being used and will adjust its milk production. I used to only pump when my boobs were hard and painful, just enough to make me comfortable. After a while your body will figure out how much milk to produce and you won’t have any more hard boobs or leaking.

Managed to get a latch this evening 12midnight-ish and he fed for 10 mins, taking himself off. But was then rooting again after 30 mins. Could that be an issue with latch quality? Or is this him feeding to up my supply?

That's really normal at this stage. Feeding tires them out so sometimes they'll have 'half' a feed then a wee rest then ask for the other half.

Thanks. Yes I don't know what to expect really. And in some ways the info I got in hospital has not helped. One of the things they said was to feed every 3 hours which seemed a bit outdated - we didn't stick to a routine with my first formula fed baby and the other was that he's obviously not getting what he needs (and it's a supply issue) as he's wanting more so quickly. I'm fine if it's all 'normal' but having spent two days in hospital being told it's not working has left me questioning if I'm doing okay a lot more. And I am on a big enough learning curve as it is!

I think it's more like if they haven't asked in three hours then offer, not that you should be aiming for 3h between feeds. Just as a maximum time. Although they don't always explain this v well.

Nappies should have a colour changing strip on them so you can tell if they are wet. Even most supermarket brands have this these days.

OP, do your breasts feel much softer and more comfortable after your baby has fed at the breast?

I'm glad you are getting good support from DH & midwife & have more help coming on the breast-feeding front.

I know it's still tough but it sounds like things are going in the right direction.

Just to comment on this

Or is this him feeding to up my supply?

As others posters said, it's exactly right for a b/f baby to feed near-constantly, and in little fits & starts (some advice still talks about needing to feed for at least 10 - 20 mins at each breast to get the hind milk (richer milk) as well as fore milk (more watery). This is rubbish in my experience - some babies feed intensely & for short periods eg 5 mins, others take 20 - 30 mins, and once they are satisfied, all ways are fine).

Also, the very best time to develop your supply is between midnight & 3 am (yay!). This is the time your prolactin levels are highest, milk production is stimulated & supply enhanced.

So him feeding especially around that time is spot on.

If I ever hear of someone (in the early weeks) saying they might express for their partner to feed at night, I always caution not too, because of possible supply issues.

I know you're probably exhausted OP. But I think you are doing really well, and the signs are positive. It's so early, just keeping feeding on demand, and ignoring the really unhelpful 'advice' you got in hospital. Such a shame.

Hi OP. Been following your thread with interest. I've nothing to add to what's already been said but just stopped to say that I think you are admirable and are doing amazingly! I wish I had your determination when I was given rubbish advice re BFing. I'm shocked and furious at the lack of support you received from the hospital. I didn't realise how bad their advice was until it was too late...well done for sticking to your guns and I hope things continue to get better! :)

Hello! Thought I'd come back and update. I am still going on with this journey. We are on day 10 now.

I am still struggling with some blocked ducts. Although it is massively better. I am trying to keep on top of massaging and applying heat - I have also been trying sleeping on my back as the worst areas are the side of my breasts near my armpits - i.e. the bits that get squashed next to the bed when I sleep on my side.

I am currently struffling with too much milk 'drowning' little man who is coughing and spluttering - being trying to hand express some off pre feed, pain in breasts after feeding (I have a post on this), potential reflux and a latch that used to be great and is now not quite there.

My breasts are much softer now, almost pillowy. Which is a relief. Hoping to finally clear the clogged ducts soon and may speak to my GP re mastitis - this is belt and braces as I am showing no signs of infection.

Thanks for all of your help. I was super fragile in the first few days after birth and the advice on here kept my grounded and focused. Can't think you enough.

Thank you @Fedfedfedup. I got no help or advice from the hospital re breastfeeding with DS1, struggled alone. And finally gave up. Have regretted it ever since. I didn't want that to impact this time so I've done some work with a lactation consultant to look at last time and what went wrong, was there anything I could have done differently. It has been a really positive experience and one that allowed me to leave a lot of my baggage behind. Sharing this to show that in some ways that experience prepared me for this time and that I have similar regrets to you re wishing I was more determined with DS1 and BF.

I'm so glad things are getting better. When you get to about 6 weeks in it will be easier again and by 12 weeks it will be great.
Fast let down can cause reflux like symptoms, that can settle as the baby gets bigger. Expressing off some before you start a feed is the advice my HV gave me too.
My almost 5mo doesn't mind my fast let down now and if he doesn't like it at any given feed he just turns his head away (soaking us both 🤣).
It's so much easier when they're big and have stronger necks.
Keep at it op, you're doing great!