Been told to lower DS’s oz..

[Sparkles556]

But it is proving very difficult. DS has vomited large amounts since he was pretty much born. HV recommended changing milk (didn’t work) and a GP wanted to rule out an allergy so prescribed him alimentum milk which made him worse. On Saturday morning, he resembled the exorcist. It was just coming out and out and he was screaming. I was at a loss and phoned 111 who advised me to take him to the walk in centre. They weighed him (he’s 6 weeks old) and he was 11lb exactly (he weighed 8lb 2oz at birth) They said he weighs more than he should and that 5oz is way too much and that’s the reason for his vomiting. They told me to feed him 3oz and if he wants more then to ignore him as apparently babies don’t know when they are full so they’ll just keep sucking and sucking. But only giving him 3oz is proving really difficult as he just screams and screams for more and then I feel awful. Of course the doctor probably knows better than the box of aptamil, but on the tub it says 4-8 weeks old should be having 5oz? I possibly may have read that wrong so I’m not sure. I’ve only been trying him with the 3oz since Saturday, should I just persevere? Will he eventually get use to it?

That sounds like crazy advice - it's almost impossible to overfeed a baby (however fed) and you're meant to feed on demand, following their cues! Whilst sometimes it's possible to mistake the cues (mine used to cry when tired, as well as when very hungry for instance) you soon get a feel for that.
The recommended amount of formula per day is 150-200ml per kg of body weight per day (then divided up into however many feeds). That should give you an indication if you're in the right amounts. Whilst I didn't find the formula packaging over helpful (mine wanted more smaller feeds than suggested on the tub) it isn't a million miles off!

@RidingMyBike I did find the advice a bit but I suppose when it’s a doctor you’re just inclined to trust them🤷🏻‍♀️ Ahhh it’s so frustrating

That advice sounds like they are fobbing

you off IMO, if he’s looking for more after 3oz then he’s clearly hungry for it! How often between feeds?

His symptoms sound like reflux, ask the GP to try gaviscon - it helps some but not others (it helped my DD with the pain, just not the vomiting).

Have they looked into reflux? It sounds far more like that?

Is totally dismiss that advice as well. Riding is right about how much formula he should be having in a day. As he's 11lb it's 27.5 floz or around 800 ml.

I'd go back to the GP tomorrow.

I thought half a pound a week was in line with expected gain.
My friends ds had pyloric stenosis that needed surgery. She was repeatedly told by GP that there was nothing wrong.

Sounds like my DS with the crazy vomiting.
The paediatric doctor said the same thing, that he was being over fed and I was told to severely restrict and cut down his feeds.
I did it for 10hours against my better judgement and then started giving him milk.
My HV (who thankfully visited the day after the hospital appointment) was absolutely horrified at their advice and misdiagnosis.

He had super bad reflux and she was amazed we had managed to keep him as hydrated as we was (before the crappy hospital advice).

We switched to reflux milk which helped him so much, first time he chugged 2-3 5oz bottles - poor soul was starving and finally able to keep it down.

I hope they take you seriously and manage to help! It sounds like reflux to me.

I was told to feed half as much and then after an hour feed the other half. It did work a bit, but distracting her for that hour was exhausting.

What has made a massive difference is using faster flow teats, which seems really counter intuitive but she's hardly been sick at all since.

Ds2 was 8lb8oz at birth and 11lb14oz at 6 weeks, he's breastfed, I wonder if they'd think I was over feeding him too

Look up paced bottle feeding, use the lowest teat size and introduce a dummy if you haven't already but if your baby is still hungry after 3oz then they obviously need more!

As a pp said smaller amounts more often may work better but if the baby is hungry then they're hungry!

It does sound like reflux though.

Thanks for all your comments. He usually goes 3 hours between each feed but because he’s bringing most of it back it can be like an hour. No mention of reflux although when I googled it, it does sound like what he’s got. I don’t like to sound like I know better than doctors but if it is because he’s having too much, would he still be bringing bits of sick up even after an hour of having it?

It really does sound like reflux, it's been a long time since it's something I've dealt with but I think the advice is paced feeding and keeping baby upright for at least 30 minutes after a feed.

Don't feel you can't go back to the drs, unfortunately you'll find with a lot of drs you have to be insistent as they will fob you off. I took my then baby DC for an emergency appointment when he had an extremely high temperature. The Dr foo-fooed me as an anxious first time mother and told me he was teething. 2 hours later DC's breathing was compromised and he was blue lighted to hospital.

Never be afraid to push or ask questions.

Sounds like crazy advice.

Go to the gp, video any puking episodes if you can.

Sounds like textbook reflux I'm amazed they didn't mention it.

How are things this morning @idontlikealdi?

I’m going to get in touch with either the health visitor or the gp..I also forgot to add he has quite bad poos too which (tmi) smell a bit vinegary he has 2 this morning already which is a bit unusual for him

If GP is still thinking it's an allergy, I'd ask for a referral to the Allergy Clinic and a Paediatric Dietician. By the time you get to see the Dietitian, you'll probably be ready to think about weaning anyway

I'm not going to talk about amounts or meds etc but dd did have reflux (mostly bf at that stage) and threw up regularly. 1 piece of advice that helped (apart from me keeping to a very very bland diet for a good few months, including no spice or onions or garlic), was

Keep baby upright for 30 minutes after the end of each feed before laying down.

That was enough time to start digestion and first "batch" of that feed could be digested and leave stomach into intestine, meaning tummy wasn't completely full so acidic milk (after it had mixed with stomach acid) didn't immediately come back up her food pipe as it was tilted on its side and burn her throat or make her sick.

I hope that makes sense - the muscle at the top of her tummy didn't close properly ( the reflux) so like a full bottle of water with no cap if you tilt it sideways, milk just flowed back up her throat but it was now sour from stomach acid and upset her as it burned her throat. And she sometimes got sick again at that point (apart from if she'd vomited mid-feed or when being winded).

@Sparkles556

Thanks for all your comments. He usually goes 3 hours between each feed but because he’s bringing most of it back it can be like an hour. No mention of reflux although when I googled it, it does sound like what he’s got. I don’t like to sound like I know better than doctors but if it is because he’s having too much, would he still be bringing bits of sick up even after an hour of having it?

Honestly @Sparkles556 please go back and insist on seeing someone else. I had an awful time trying to get help with my baby’s reflux with the GPs! Sounds exactly like my DS was. My baby was breastfed when it all started and I was told by the GP that BF babies can’t get reflux and that I must be over feeding him 🙄🙄 but you can’t over feed a BF baby so that advice was rubbish! Insisted on seeing someone else as by this point by baby had complete breast refusal and I was having to express every 2 hours day and night to express enough milk for his feeds 😴 and I asked about trying anti-reflux formula...he said no to the formula but he prescribed infant Gaviscon...at the wrong dose 🙄🙄 2 feeds and my baby was horrifically constipated for a whole weekend 🙄 Went back again and insisted on seeing another doctor. She changed the Gaviscon dose and told me if that didn’t work then the next option would be another medication (Omeprazole) - she still said no to anti-reflux formula. Gaviscon made DS constipated on and off and he still wasn’t keeping most of his feeds down so I went back yet again to another GP and asked why they were so adamant that I shouldn’t be trying anti-reflux formula before putting DS on a medication that he may or may not need.... “we don’t really like to prescribe anti-reflux formula if we can avoid it because of the cost” 😡 never once had I asked for it to be prescribed!! I told her I was going home to try anti reflux formula and that I would get DS weighed and get back in touch with her for a prescription if the formula didn’t work. Tried the formula and he’s like a different baby!

On the rare occasion that DS is a greedy boy and takes his bottle a bit too fast or takes a bit much then he brings it up there and then...usually when I burp him after the feed. But all that throwing up after an hour etc has stopped.

If I were you I would pick up a tub of anti reflux formula (stick to whatever brand you’re currently using) and give it a try - it’s not going to harm your baby if he doesn’t have reflux, it’s only thickened milk. If it doesn’t help then at worst you’ve wasted a bit of money on a tub of formula. But it might be all he needs to help it stay down. If that doesn’t work then you can go to the doctor and insist seeing someone else for advice!

How is his weight? Are you getting face to face visits with your HV?

@Sparkles556 Just realised you’ve said about his weight 🙈🤣 that was another thing the GP told me...if he’s putting on weight then it can’t be reflux 🙄 which is rubbish!! Don’t worry about them saying he weighs more than he should. What centile is he on? My DS was born at 8lb 11oz and on the 75th centile. When I last had him weighed at 4.5months he was 17lb 13oz 🙈 weighs the same as my friends 6.5m old!! But he’s sitting just above the 75th centile now so I’m fine with that. He’s obviously just a wee chub 🤷🏻‍♀️🤣

Sounds like reflux to me too, the Exorcist style vomiting is really scary. Mine was much better on Gaviscon, it did constipate him a bit but it allowed him to gain weight and he was much happier and as he got bigger the constipation got better. If that doesn't work then reflux milk is really good (you might need a more open teat) and opremazole if that doesn't work.

If it's really bad there is also a condition mentioned by pp called pyloric stenosis. My friend's baby needed a small op and it was all fixed.

My son had a bit of reflux after milk right up until he started walking, although it was massively improved by weaning. It's annoying and messy (we had 30 muslins and even that wasn't enough sometimes!) but they do grow out of it.