TIKTOK et al please give your opinion!

[NewBabyStillBelowBirthWeight]

I exclusively bf new baby for a few days, till day 4 when baby had lost more than 10% of birthweight. Weight loss stabilized day 5 and increased by 20 g on day 6. The problem seemed to be that DD fell asleep on the breast. I was put under pressure to change to formula (refused) and agreed to pump milk 8 times a day to establish milk production was ok ( c 30 -70 ml per session) and top up breast milk with formula to 90ml per feeding. I was told NOT to breast feed at all, pending health visitor visit tomorrow. I am using a cup rather than bottle in hope of re-establising bfeeding.

Please, was the advice I was given good? Were there no other alternatives? Pumping and cup feeding take all of my time, with barely any to sleep unless I give only formula. My toddler is also being very difficult which is hard to deal with right now,

How can I help DD gain weight? To top it all she has had diarohea since we can home.

Haven´t had chance to look for info really as constantly expressing then feeding and looking after other DD. No time to think..

NewBaby - I wish I had asked you to check the maths....I come across this more than just very occasionally, that clinical decisions are based on poor figures. It is truly shocking and worthy of a complaint - especially if you were paying a private hospital for goodness sake - that rubbish advice was given on rubbish data

Honestly, you need someone decent to come and watch you feed, start to finish, and talk you through your plan.

Do you still think your baby has diarrhoea?

Is he still sleepy?

Has anyone confirmed effective milk transfer?

Is he producing several soft yellow poos a day?

Good luck! You should be able to turn this round - but what truly disgraceful postnatal care

And you need someone to help you - a new baby and a toddler......you need 24/7 help. Is this possible for you?

Thanks everyone. HAve decided to express till tomorrow when midwife comes again. Producing around 400ml per 24 hours (not TOO bad is it TikTok?) and this has gone up fast and steadily in the last few days I`ve been expressing. Baby is not so sleepy anymore, though may be a problem yet. Number of wet and dirty nappies seems fine.

Will try and contact a lactation consultant if necessary, the nearest one to me is an hour´s drive away : (

Keep your fingers crossed for me!

How is it going NewBabyStillBelowBirthWeight?

Prettybird, thanks for asking after us. Things not going well really. DD often refuses to latch on so I´m in a vicious circle of having to express milk for her and give the occassional formula. Thinking of giving up all the time as have spent the whole of the last weeks just feeding and pumping and my supply will dry up anyway at this rate. Trying to pump to comfort so she can get something when she wants to feed. Any more advice very welcome. Devastated at prospect of giving up but don´t see alternative. With help, things do go better, but there is noone here most of the time. Do I have any choice?

NBSBBW, you must be livid with the hospital!

However, that's not helpful to you right now.

DD's refusing to latch on, which won't help with establishing bf - can you take her to bed and feed her when she's sleepy, can you feed her in the bath, can you carry her in a sling as much as poss, do lots of skin to skin and offer her your breast whenever she peeps?

I realise you'll need help with your toddler to do this - have you got somebody near who can come and help?

Ring one of the bf lines to get some more ideas about getting her to latch as well. Have you got the numbers?

NBSBBW you poor thing, you're doing so well to keep going but i think you do need some expert support one-to-one.

do you live outside UK? do you know where to get bf support near you, can we help to find someone?

I have had professional support, which helps, but as soon as I´m on my own things go pear shaped again. Morning feeds normally work but that´s about it on a regular basis. DD still won´t open her mouth at all and often just lies there or throws her head back. I´ve tried evg you and the pro have recommended, little success. Its like DD does not want to bf.

OK, I know this is a radical and not always practical/affordable option for everyone but is there any chance you can pay for some help for your toddler while you sort this out? (This is assuming you don't have a friend or family member to ask?) Obviously it costs money but it might help if you can afford it...

It sounds like you really do need some help and moral support to get this sorted.

And please don't be disheartened about the BF still not going too well - I know it feels like you want to give up at times but IME, even when feeding a second or third baby it can be difficult for some women. You've had your confidence knocked by the shocking advice from your health care workers but the key questions are: is the baby now gaining weight at a reasonable level? Are the poos/wet nappies frequent and normal? Does baby seem well and lively - eg eyes bright, 'soft spot' normal, mouth moist etc? Is the latch/feeding pattern improving, even if only slightly or only in some feeds in a day?

Something that might help while you're struggling to see an improvement is to keep a diary to check which bits are getting better over time (it's easy to forget things are improving when you're struggling)

Just my twopence worth but good luck!

as anyone recommended breast crawl to you? look at this video and search the breast and bottlefeeding threads here on mn with 'breast crawl' and/or 'breastcrawl' as your key words. several mums on here have tried it with babies as old as 6 wks and it has helped to improve latch.

there is also a video on youtube which shows breast crawl in a bath tub with a newborn in hospital. when i get home i can search for it for you. hang on, i think i linked it on breast and bottlefeeding sometime in the last 2 months or so. if you do a search under my name you should find it. sorry, but i'm at work now and don't have the time.

Have you tried lots of skin-to-skin contact?

Also have you tried feeding in the bath? That can act as a rebirthing experience for the baby who may the look for the breast?

Sorry if this is repition as I only have a short time to post.

Please contact a local support counsellor because you will need RL support to re-establish breastfeeding.

Your initial advice was really poor and unnecessary.

I helped a friend of mine re-establish exclusive breastfeeding after she had been admitted to hospital with weight loss and started on formula top-ups by bottle. It took a few weeks but she got there and exclusivley fed till her DD was 6 months.

She found her baby's best feed was the one she woke her for during the night (baby was sleeping all night at 6 weeks).

Since you are having success with some feeds, you will be able to re-establish breastfeeds.

Good luck.

breastfeeding in the bath

here i found the other video.

crossposted with mears.

Ds wasn't very good at opening mouth. With the help of the breast feeding counsellors at the maternity hopsital, we work out a techniquie of "posting" my boob into his mouth, ie I would squeeze it into a sort of rectangular shape and get it into his half open mouth that way.

Is baby not opening her mouth because she has been woken for a feed out of interest?

Just realised the problem may be that DD finds drinking from the cup easier than from the breast. She guzzles a feed within 10 mins from the cup but takes up to 1 hour from the breast for one side. Today she hasn´t even bothered to try to find the breast, just lay quietly then when I finally give the cup she guzzles down a huge quantity.

Bear in mind she has been using the cup for more than 2 weeks, since in hospital.

How do you wean a baby from a cup? How do you wean from a bottle?

Have basically tried all of the above advice, skin-to-skin has had some success..

You just have to persevere I am afraid. I personally would offer breast only. If she won't go on, try again later. Don't offer any more feeds from the cup so that she will get used to sucking again. The fact she has managed in the morning shows she is capable.

Perhaps you need a 'babymoon'. Get someone to take your toddler for the day and you just spend time in bed, skin-to-skin with your baby. Plently of snacks and drinks to hand.

Who have you got around for support?

Hubby helps a lot when he´s not at work and takes toddler to nursery in the morning but that´s about it (I know, a lot compared to some people).

Have managed to get DD latche on 3 times today, a real triumph, so feeling hopeful, but know the pattern, tomorrow she may not want to at all.. Couldn´t refuse the cup, as she has been poorly and put on very little weight. She needs to have at least a bare minimum.

How do you know when just to call it a day? I am neglecting my toddler and have no time to cook or clean etc. I´ve devoted 100% energies to feeding, pumping or trying to feed for 3 weeks now and don´t see any end in sight. The baby and I have barely even left the house since she was born. It´s not much of a life. I really don´t want to give up but wonder when it is our family´s best interests to do just that?

Sorry Mears, didn´t answer your question before.. No, I don´t wake her for feeds, absolutely no point. She just drops off again. Even cold water doesn´t help.

By what you are saying, I think you will succeed. Definitely try and do some baby mooning. In the long run, when breastfeeding is established you will have much more freedom. Try and have confidence in yourself - your baby CAN breastfeed. If that is all she has access to then she will do it more readily. As you said, she did not have excessive weight loss in the first place. You have maintained your milk supply by expressiing so now it is just a case of her learning to do it. Give her some more time - she will 'click'.

Well done for persevering. I would write a letter to your hospital though - the advice you have been given is shocking.

Thank you all for your support. It really does make such a difference and has helped me to persevere. I´m sure I´d regret giving up.