Projectile vomit and 3 week old breast fed baby - help needed

[Tanis]

Has anyone any tips on preventing by daughter from vomiting. It happens randomly, I wind her all the time. There seems to be no pattern and I am worried about over feeding her, although they say breast fed babies can't over feed - maybe she is greedy or I have too much milk? Does Infracol work? (My first daughter was never sick.)

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Vomiting is normal for breastfed and bottle fed babies, Tanis....not a sign that anything is wrong unless there are other factors (projectile, as yurtgirl says, or the baby is losing weight or is also ill in some other way). If it happens in an otherwise healthy, thriving baby, it just reflects the immaturity of the gut (which is simply grown out of). You do not need to worry about over-feeding. If your dd vomits after a feed and is then hungry again, simply feed her again! This doesn't sound like colic or wind, so infacol would not be any help. Try not winding her, and seeing if this reduces the throwing up.

Sorry, just seen the header of this thread....if it is literally projectile, then you do need medical input.

Agree with tiktok - is it really projectile? If so, call surgery asap. My biggest shock with dd2 was that she would throw up after every feed, but then got to learn that some babies just do that. Great fun when you're weaning, and weaning food contains tomatoes . But if it's not at all normal for her, like I said, call the emergency surgery.

dd had reflux and was sometimes but not always violently sick although it got worse as she took more so for the first few weeks she was just difficult to settle in her bed and preferred being held or sat in her chair or car seat. Does she appear uncomfortable after feeds or is it just the occasional sickiness ?

Keeping her more upright might help - in car seat, bouncy chair or with a rolled towel or wedge under the mattress at the head end of her bed. Also not changing her or lying her down until at least 1/2hour after a feed. If it is projectile vomit then it is worth getting investigated, if only to rule out conditions such as pyloric stenosis and reflux.

hth

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My ds1 hardly ever possetted, and also gained very little. My ds2 possetts incredible amounts. I am only rarely not covered in what looks like cottage cheese. And he's huge. He showed up a good pound lighter than ds1, but at 5 weeks he had the same weight that ds1 had a 3 months! The possetting doesn't seem to bother him, and it certainly amuses quite a few toddlers we know. ("We're going to see ds2." "Oh, will he throw up?")

As others have said, if she seems to be throwing up everything she eats, or if it comes on suddenly, it's probably worth worrying about, but otherwise, it's just the sphincter at the top of the stomach not quite doing its job.

Both my bf babies in the early weeks used to posset alot, when the milk was probably over plentiful and before things settled down.

With DD1 I panicked the first time she spewed like a volcano on the changing mat and I rang the HV!!!

With DD2 she used to guzzle for hours and then often the act of burping her would bring it back, and I think sometimes once they start it's a sort of trigger and they keep doing it. Esp if most of the wind is underneath all that milk IYSWIM?

I just kept thinking "what a WASTE!!"

It settles down for sure. Well - in my experience anyway.

Yurtgirl, I do recognise the vicious circle you are talking about. I'd suggest having a detailed discussion with someone who knows about bf. It's possible that you have a very generous supply and forceful letdown (the 2 often go together)....feeding one sided for several hours on the trot can help damp down the supply without depriving the baby of anything. It also slows down the let down and the baby is less likely to take loads and loads to cope with the abundant flow.

But this may not be what's happening, which is why a good long discussion helps.

First baby used to feed for long stretches, usually in the evening, then sick up LOADS all over me. I'd be soaking. I fixed it by feeding him in "shifts", Tanis. 20 minutes on the breast, 20 minutes off.

DS2 has tended to be sicky, but he's a terrible burper, and I think I do have very fast let- down. So what works with him is making sure it's a good 2 hours (maybe more) from the end of one feed to the next, so that his tummy is definitely empty when he feeds the next time. Also, I try to get him burped right after the feed, too. But he'll literally burp 1.5 hours after he was last fed, he just stores them up, somehow.

Just to add that my two have always thrown up a huge amount of milk. Assuming you are not talking about actuallyhitting the wall opposite, I recognise what you are saying in both of mine. My ds1 who is now 3 did this for his whole first year of life, though to a lesser degree as he got towards one. My ds2 is now 4 months old and just as bad. Every feed results in soaking muslim. He is never without a bib and I go out with a least 7 more. He regulalry soaks me, him, etc. I have had it checked out with both of them. They do not have reflux as they are in no pain or discomfort from acid being brought back up. They are what are known as "Happy spitters" - just not bothered by the large amounnt they regurgitate! When ds2 was a few weeks old, it seemed to peak with feeds actually splattering on the floor behind me when I burped him!

Thanks for all the tips - she doesn't actually hit the wall - just more the surrounding sofa/bed/me, and she does not appear in pain. It is more the unexpected aspect (it is not every feed normally 2/3 times in 24hours), it literally catches you unawares. In fact she has an extremely peaceful expression after being sick as in 'thats better'. I have tried not winding her and keeping her lying down and not moving her after feeding - this seemed to delay the vomiting. I suppose what bothers me more is the actual quanitiy (a good half a beaker full) and as Catbert says 'what a waste'. She does go a good 2 hours between feeds though and sleeps well inbetween, so perhaps I will have to get used to the extra washing.

Hi Tanis, my DD2 is eight weeks old and now and then she catches me out with plentiful and forceful poogs (DD1's name for the phenomenon ). I find tilting her, from horizontal to vertical, down, then up nice and slowly a few times tends to bring wind up with the least mess (sounds funny, but makes me think of her tum as a spirit level!). When I put her on my shoulder too soon after a feed it sends the air straight up and pushes the feed back out, with force! Sometimes lying her flat down after feeding seems to cause it too. It's definately worse at night! She keeps shocking me, like you, it's the surprise element that gets me!

It sounds like a laundry problem rather than a breastfeeding problem. If she is not distressed then it's okay. My ds was also sicky and then one day he just stopped. It does seem like a waste...but on the plus side it's keeping your supply up!

My DS had pyloric stenosis and although your dd throwing up alot is distressing Tanis, it doesn't sound like PS .... Although, having said that, PS is not usually diagnosed before 6 weeks.
DS started vomiting a lot when he was 11 days old. At first it was once a day after a big feed. If I kept the feeds small he would be ok ... but need feeding every hour.
By 3 weeks he was projectile vomiting every other feed and it was way more than half a beaker full. He would get me, dh, the sofa, the carpet and the ceiling (if he was lying down) in one go ... once he got the HV too.
He was diagnosed with severe reflux and was given infant gaviscon which just made him projectile vomit porridge.
By 4 weeks he was projectile vomiting every feed and would sleep for hours and hours in between in sheer exhaustion.
Because he was under 6 weeks I was told it couldn't be Pyloric Stenosis.
At 4 weeks he slept for ... wait for it ... 14 hours without a feed .... and was really really poorly. Luckily I was at my mums at the time and she marched me and ds down to her doctor's and demanded that DS was seen to (my own doctor kept sending me home telling me not to worry).
At hospital DS was weighed. He had been 10lbs at birth and was 8lbs at 4 weeks. He needed a scan to determine Pyloric Stenosis and then a very very quick and simple surgical procedure to fix it ... and he was never sick again ... although I was a wreck
I know this all sounds scary but what I am saying is
a) If it is PS it will be picked up because it doesn't get better and the projectile vomiting will get worse and the baby gets poorly and doctors won't ignore that ...
b) If it is PS, once it is diagnosed it is fixed really really easily and quickly ...

If it is bad reflux ... although very very annoying and irritating it is managed with something like infant gaviscon and you will have to put up with the washing for a few months .....

My friend's baby had really bad reflux and was constantly sick - he improved when he learned to sit up ... she was really fed up with it at 5 months but now (he is 9 months and crawling) she has forgotten about it.

HTH ....

DD2 was much much better last night and was only 'possetting' rather than any large quantity coming back. I kept the feeds shorter - taking her off when I felt she had had enough ( i do think she is greedy). She didn't go as long between feeds but much less mess!! Reading all your comments i don't think it is PS - but i am seeing health visitor this week so i will definately mention it. Funnily enough she has never been sick down my back (yet!) and seems to bring more wind up that way than the traditional sit on baby's bottom, lean forward and pat - i guess babies are all different too!

DS was a very sicky baby - he used to do what were referred to as 'big sicks' in our house (we're SO good at calling spades spades here!). I think sometimes he'd get a pain in his tummy, think it was hunger and want to feed and feed to stop it hurting. Eventually he'd begin to thrash around whilst feeding and I'd click that it was probably wind, by which time he was full to the eyebrows and as soon as I sat him up to wind him, he'd give back everything from his boots up (so it seemed!).

Having said that, sometimes he'd do big sicks a while after feeds (his favourite place was on the changing mat - then he'd rub his head in it - eek!). I'd turn my back for a second (changing mat on floor before anyone asks!) and hear a splatting sound as it went up in the air and landed on him again! Thinking back, it's quite amusing - at the time it made me want to sob!

Because DS is my first, it did take a while to get the bfeeding sorted (about five weeks). I did wonder if he had pyloric stenosis as he'd manage to vomit quite a distance and copious amounts, but it was just posseting. I was a sicky baby and was still posseting quite profusely when I was crawling, which made for interesting patterns on the carpet...

I hope you get it sorted soon - try infacol or colief, but don't expect miracles from it - it seemed to make DS sickier (if that's possible...!). But I have heard good things about it from other people - it must work for some!

DD had a specialty in projectile vomiting at that age; she could hit me no matter who was holding her. It met all the definitions I had of projectile (went further than her length quite considerably) but she was not unhappy, dehydrated, or losing weight and she did not have pyloric stenosis. She stopped the projectile thing after a few weeks. By 6 months she hardly spit up at all. For her first 3-4 months I don't think I ever got through the day wearing the same outfit, even after adopting quite a relaxed attitude towards wearing small amounts of used milk.

Reading this has made me feel much better this morning. Although I posted a reassuring reply to the original poster a few days ago about my own sicky children, yesterday I went though one of those "why me" days as I was thrown up on as I left the house for hte day yet again. I was really down about it al yesterday (although I have been through this before with my first child). None of my friends babies are like this so it was nice (for me, not all you with sicky kids!) to read that I am not alone.

i had an extraordinarily similar experience to california girl with DS until he was about 4 months or so - it was a good day when he had projectile vomited less than 3 times per day! what may help with developing tummy muscles is, when she is a little bit older, to try and put your dd on her tummy (supervised) for small amounts of time each day - this will help develop her tummy muscles and head control.

Tani, just to say I had pyloric stenosis as a baby and it is more common in boys then girls.
It is about 1 in 1000 in girls.
Usually starts a few weeks after birth and the baby doesn't gain weight and crys constantly as they are hungry. But as i am living proof it is cureable.
And that was all them years ago in the sixties.

But you should always speak to your GP or health visitor if your worried. It is rare and my two children didn't have it. larsxx

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How do you avoid overfeeding? I think that may be the problem with ds2. I'm happy to feed him until he falls asleep, but he's such a greedy chap, he feeds and feeds, then gets grumbly, burps, feeds more, then sicks up.

This evening he threw up so vigorously his back was wet pretty much to the waist, both cheeks were soaked, and there was a nice puddle in the bed. Very pleasant. It doesn't seem to bother him much, other than keeping him from falling asleep.

Find a good naturopath or homeopath in your area - there are some fab remedies for reflux/sicky babies.