Baby refusing breast

[Baublebox]

Ds (3m) is mixed fed. 3x formula feeds per day plus breast in between and through the night.
He has suddenly started refusing to breastfeed during the day and will scream and scratch even though I know that he is hungry.He will happily take a bottle of it is offered and he bfs quite happily through the night.
I can't reduce formula because his weight always dips and we have struggled to get it on. HV and GP decided on the amount of formula.
I have a decent supply.
I really do not want to start expressing again. It sets my teeth on edge and I just hate it.
Any advice on how to overcome this please?
Thanks

Is he just interested in the world around him? My lo is a 'mare to feed during the day now at 3mnths. Would a dark room with not too much in the way of interest for him to look at or hear help?

Remember that bottle is easy milk so if it’s there they probably will just take it even if they’re not that hungry. because the moment you put the teat in their mouth milk is coming out, breastfeeding requires a lot more effort. Could be that? I guess it depends on how long it’s been since his last feed. If it’s only been an hour or two maybe he just not that hungry yet ?

He's definitely hungry as he is screaming blue murder but I think that you are right about it being linked to the effort of breastfeeding.
I've tried dark rooms and different positions but it's getting worse.
He is fine on a night though.

Am struggling with a breast refuser too. One thing I have noticed is she will feed while we are in the shower together. If I didn't have a toddler too I would do this a lot more to get her to feed. I also do dark room and I have changed positions - she prefers a sideying position. Good luck - I am finding this quite stressful so hope it works for you.

Thank you @pjani
I also have a 3 yr old so it's tricky.
I just don't want to lose breastfeeding altogether. It's so much easier and brilliant for comfort/ getting to sleep but he seems so distressed by it half of the time.

It's hard to mixfeed longterm because babies prefer the bottle as it's much easier for them. You say you can't reduce the amount of formula you're giving, at what point were you told this and how has his weight gain been since? If he's gaining well and it's been a little while, I'd be tempted to say don't give any formula for a few days, get set up in bed, lights low, white noise, and do tonnes and tonnes of skin to skin and just offer the breast constantly. Check with your HV first though.

Thank you @Ohalrightthen
It was about 3 weeks ago that we had to put this in place as ds dropped rapidly from the 50th to the 0.2nd percentile and smaller volumes of formula weren't bringing him back up.
Bed and skin to skin would be a good idea but I have a 3 yr old and a DH who works abroad during the week so it's just not a possibility.

Does anyone know whether it is possible to formula feed in the day and bf at night or would I lose supply completely if it was only 2-3 night feeds?.

I think it wouldbe possible. DS1 was a very sleepy baby and took a long time to regain his birth weight. Tongue tie too. I pumped 8x a day and topped up with expressed milk.

I can't remember when but at some point he started getting so distracted by the outside world that I couldn't get him to bf during the day, practically at all. It was stressing me out continually trying so shifted entirely to bottles of expressed milk and bf last feed of the day and through the night till I shifted to formula and night weaned at 7/8 months. It was tiring though.

That doesn't answer your Q as I was pumping, I realise. I think as long as your DC is feeding at the same times each day you will maintain supply at those times. Like for older toddlers who still feed a couple of times a day.

Thank you @pjani
He seems to have hit some kind of sleep regression as well so it feels as though everything has gone wrong rapidly.
Fingers crossed it's all a phase.

Unfortunately this is one of the “risks” of mixed feeding. Some babies realise bottles are easier and instant access and get upset with the breast when it doesn’t do the same.

Does his weight actually go down, or does the gain slow down? Losing weight is different to not gaining, iyswim.

I completely understand with pumping. It is an utter pita and i wouldn’t wish it on anyone.

The easiest thing would be to switch to formula. You can try to switch back to bf but it will be hard for a while until your supply catches up. It can be done though with some perseverance :).

I tried just bf feeding at night when mixed feeding had the same result for us. Mine just stopped night feeding. You can try, but again be prepared for him to refuse.

Sorry to jump on your thread. My ds is now 4weeks old I started mix feeding at 2weeks as his weighted dropped dramatically he's now gained a lot of weight but I'm having this problem he will only bf for 10mins before getting frustrated then guzzling a bottle is there a way back from this or will he be distressed if I take most bottles? Appreciate any advice?

Thanks @bluebluezoo. He actually lost weight. It wasn't a huge amount but enough that he dropped down the centiles really quickly.
I am close to just formula feeding but have battled for so long just to get to this point that I'm feeling a bit shit about giving up now.

@WhoUsedMyName sorry that you are struggling too. It's so stressful.
When ds was smaller my midwife suggested going back to breastfeedinh exclusively to see if he would manage to keep the weight on. She hoped that as he got bigger, he would be more efficient at feeding and get less tired.
It didn't work for us as ds lost weight but it could be worth discussing with your health visitor.

Thank you @Baublebox that's interesting how long would you suggest trying it I may do 24hrs and see how we both cope x

I would maybe talk to your midwife/HV first. When we tried it we weighed ds before we stated and then three days later so that we could see what impact it had on his weight. I wouldn't have felt comfortable trying without it being properly controlled.
Good luck @WhoUsedMyName

@Baublebox I had my mw today :) & she said to do them same . Thank you

Forgot to say you can call the breastfeeding helpline for advice. There is the risk that your baby won't want bf during the night either (ideally as sleeping through!). But I just want to say you have done a tremendous job. Two kids, lockdown, and an almighty perseverance to try and keep your baby breastfeeding. You've given your baby those antibodies and those cuddles. I have a health economist friend and she said the literature on benefits of the length of breastfeeding is quite poor and felt happy stopping at 4 months herself. I hope you look back with pride at what you've done over these tough winter months.

I second getting bf specialist advice.
Unfortunately many m/w and h/v just do not have the expertise, and if they do they don't have the time to impart it.

So generally the “solution” to any breastfeeding issue is formula top ups.

For example not gaining enough weight and you’re told to top up with formula. That often leads to a downward spiral where more and more formula is given, as mums get worried about weight and with formula you have an absolute measure of how much they’ve had.

I was lucky enough to have a hv who supported bf. He- yes strangely enough the best bf advice I had was from a male hv- firstly was against weighing, especially weekly as some hv like to do with bf babies. He went on clinical signs instead- did the baby look healthy, hydrated, good ins and outs, alert level etc. Said weight was just a meaningless number without the rest.

When mine did plateau a little weight wise I got lots of advice on increasing supply, what I ate etc, and also tips and tricks on how to make them take more. I also got lots of reassurance that she may just be a small active baby who burned a lot of calories, and all this was purely precautionary as she looked completely healthy.

Also I was referred immediately to paeds, for blood tests and assessment. He actually discouraged formula top ups as he said babies nearly always gain with formula, but that wasn’t necessarily a good thing as if there is an underlying issue that may mask it. So get the paeds referral done first so you know there isn’t a liver, kidney, thyroid or other issue that is causing an issue.

When she passed all the paeds tests I stopped getting her weighed and that made things much easier. It gave me the confidence to know if she was happy and active she was doing well just on breast milk.

Just a different perspective.

O/p if your baby has lost weight then I’d push for a paeds referral. Weight gain slowing on bf is normal, but weight loss is a different thing. Get any biological reasons ruled out.