second child failing to thrive just like her sister.

[beanymum]

My 16 wk old daughter is now on the 2nd centile line (75th at birth) and I have been told in no uncertain terms to give her a bottle by my doctor. The odd thing is that her older sister followed exactly the same pattern and I ended up giving her solids at 16 weeks (which did increase her rate of weight gain). I want to wait before giving solids this time and feel I have to top up. I just wonder if anyone else has had this happen to them of knows why it would occur. Both girls are happy, healthy children and with my first I did all the things to increase milk supply etc. but it didn't seem to do any good. It would be nice to talk to anyone who is going through the same thing and is reluctant to add formula feeds. I am so scared my supply will go down and I will end up giving more and more FF.

not that i intend to stop bf of course and hope i can ditch bottle asap

beany, it's hard to get a good overview of what's happening here (I hate the new mumsnet layout....returning to 'classic' doesn't help when you want to scroll through lots of posts). If your baby needs to be topped up, why does it have to be with formula? Why can it not be with an extra breastfeed, or a return to the breast? If she gets ratty when you offer her an extra breastfeed/return to the breast, then that's an indication she doesn't really need it...you could wait 20-30 mins and try again.

Charts of whatever hue or type will not help you at all. She will look even smaller on the WHO charts. I get very twitchy when well meaning people discuss the WHO charts on mumsnet as if they will resolve all the issues raised by doctors and others who look at the charts and nothing else. They will not!

Breastfed babies typically grow rather faster than formula fed babies until about 4-6 months and the diff. is only really apparent from about 6 mths. In the first 4-6 mths, using a chart to 'prove' the baby is ok is as misguided as using a chart to 'prove' the baby is too light - it's the individual baby who needs to be assessed individually.

the percentile charts are old and they are based on bottle fed babies who tend to gain weight rapidly and also prone to being overweight!
i bf and at there were times when he did not gain anything weeks at a time. he dropped t othe bottom centile. my hv suggested topping up with a bottle of formula, in the end i started him on food at 5.5 months as hv tend to push to not wean until 6 months if they bf alone.
do what you feel is right, if you think you should start weaning then do so.

bethoo - you are wrong about the charts! They are not especially old, they are not based on bottle fed babies (they are based on thousands of babies whose feeding is not differentiated, though many will have been bottle fed, that's for sure).

The problem is not the charts - it's the way they are used.

well that is what my HV told me

Sorry, bethoo, she's wrong! Lots of HVs are not well-informed about this.

Have had mixed sucess with the 'topping up'. Have decided to give it a try until I see the doctor on 2nd Nov as I agreed this with him. Was tempted to go and see local BF adviser (she is brill, I saw her a lot with dd1) but decided to wait as I know it will be even more difficult to know what to do- I'm sure she will tell me to ignore the doctor but it is not that easy and I don't want to feel torn between what two people think. Last time she told me to think of formula top ups as 'medicine'which is a good way of handling it I think. I have only bought a few small cartons and will reassess the situation in a couple of weeks.

My dd has not guzzled down a lot of formula after a breastfeed so I am hopeful that it isn't my supply, but just how she is. However I long for a chubby baby, she looks so skinny compared to all the other babies I see.

Thanks for all your support, will see how it goes at the w/e.

everyone loves my petite dd, they say she looks like a doll. both my girls are/were beautiful babies. and they get more wear out of their baby clothes

we just had our first settled evening feed for about a month so i'm looking on the bright side tonight. even though you may not feel it right now you're still doing a fantastic job, really you are.

proof on my profile (limited time only...)

puppy, she id just gorgeous . We seem to have very similar tales but you have managed not to lose your confidence like me.

DD2 was very unsettled last night and I was convinced she was really hungry (on and off the boobs as if there was nothing there). My DH tried to give her some formula but she didn't want it. Experiments today seem to suggest that she can and will take the bottle but doesn't want to after a breast feed . I feel much better now despite the lack of sleep and ready to challange my doctor on his theory that I haven't got enough milk.

Will have to sort a profile out as I'd really love to show of my two too! (I normally lurk and don't post)

ps glad your eve feed was good - hope things have turned a corner for you too.

My ds (six and a half months) is petit on any chart. He was born on 50th centile and although he has always gained weight (apart from one scary week) it has been slowly. He is now on the 0.4th centile.

However, my HV - one of the few decent ones I think - never told me to top up, never told me to wean early (in fact he is still almost exclusively bf - he's not a huge fan of solids yet) and at every weigh-in she would look at him with his beaming face and say, "he's happy, he's healthy, he's just petite".

I think so much trust is put in these charts that HVs forget to actually look at the baby. Is she healthy? Meeting developmental milestones? Producing plenty of soaking wet nappies (dirty nappies are harder to go on as some bf babies after the first six weeks or so produce fewer than others)? Then she's probably all right.

Could you ring one of the helplines?

DS1 did much the same thing except in his case he dropped from 90th centile to 50th so there wasn't any pressure from anyone -in fact the HV said oh no probs, BF babies tend to do that, he's just finding his line. I wonder what would have been said if he had dropped from the middle of the chart to the bottom . He's still exactly the same now at 8yo 95th centile for height, 50th for weight, eats like a horse and looks like a stick insect!
Lisa X

Do you know what? My ds1 was born on the 50th centile then rocketed up to the 99.6th at 12 weeks and has stayed there ever since. Not one person ever mentioned that there might be an issue with him, because of this misguided perception that it's okay for babies to be big.

Yet he was in the same percentage of the population size-wise as your dd, just at the opposite end. He also shot through the same number of centile lines.

I know that sometimes dropping down the centiles can indicate a problem, but equally so could racing up them.

Were you happy before you saw the doctor that she was doing okay? Would you be worrying if you hasn't seen him? If you are happy that your dd is content, weeing, pooing, smiling, doing what she should be doing and isn't interested in the top ups or extra feeds why don't you cancel the doctor's appointment? I doubt he'll remember you should be there if he doesn't see your screen. Go and see the bfc instead and have your mind put at rest by someone who isn't potentially going to wreck your bfing.

I've had all 3
3 babies all born on 50th
ds1 now aged 13 still now on 99.6 centile afte doubling weight at 6 wks

dd now aged 5 was 0.4 centile from 4 wks

ds2 7 mths 75th centile from 2 wks

All have been excl breastfed with no formula.
All are happy healthy bright and well babies...
it is always good to rule out something else, but if you really feel that you can rule out anything then I could tell you what I did with dd as she plunged thrugh the centiles
I lied to my hv about top ups

This sounds like a claissic case of "catch down" growth: ie child born above its genetic weight (due to the excellent nutrition provided by its mother ) and then having to adjust to its "natural" curve. So of course she is ging to drop down the curves.

Ds was born on the 91st centile, dropped (IIRC) well over a pound and then took c.7 weeks to regain his birthwight - so of course dropping through the centiles as he did so. He never actaully lost weight - just gained it extremely slowly.

Eventually he started to follow a "curve" jsut below the actual centiles, before starting to creep back up until the charts and then follow the 25th for c.6 months and then on up to the 50th, where now aged 7, he remains.

This is exactly as predicted by the consulatant paediatrician who he saw (referred by the breast feeding counsellor midwives, who weren't exactly worried by ds, but were just covering their backsides). He saw a happy healthy baby in fornt of him.

Ds' rate of weight gain never changed, even when after topping up with EBM and then also giving every second feed as EBM, so that I could see he was having plenty.

I was fortunate to get lots of support - but also made sure to avoid HVs and just saw the breast feeding counsellors at the maternity hospital who ran a support group.