Giving birth was easy compared with this. Moral support needed please!

[naturelover]

First of all, 7-week old DD is doing really well, 90th centile for weight, content most of the time, feeding every 3 or so hours.

BUT, she is fussing at the breast a lot, either I'm not holding her comfortably or I'm misreading her cues, but every feed feels like a wrestling match with both of us getting increasingly upset. Since day one we've had problems (jaundice, blocked nose, thrush - now easing a bit). I wonder if the slight adjustment of latch a few days ago (on advice of bf counsellor) has made things worse temporarily, and if she still has some residual soreness in her mouth from thrush. I've finished 2-week course of fluconazole but am continuing with Daktarin cream and oral gel after feeds, and dietary restrictions for me.

Or maybe it's the famous six-week growth spurt that has made her fuss more (she is also more fussy in the evenings).

Because she is so big and long (almost 12lb, 60cm) but unable to hold up her head yet, I find it hard, even with cushions, to support her in a way that is comfortable for me. And the positioning always looks a bit awkward for her and I'm tense (desperate for her to stay latched on) so I suppose she's sensing that too. Usually she'll stay latched on for 5 mins or so, gulping away (fast letdown) before coming off and then the wrestling begins.

I'm starting to dread each feed, she tugs on the nipple and screams, turns beetroot, beats my chest, kicks her legs, headbutts my boob, you name it. Has anyone been through a phase like this (I assume it's a phase) and survived? Any tips?

Never underestimate the power of getting naked. Take your top off, strip your dd to her nappy and cuddle under a duvet for the day watching dvds.

At least that was what tended to help with ds when he got really fussy.

Sure someone who is actually knowlegable about these things will be along shortly.

Congratualtions on persevering

Quite a lot of people (including me) have gone through a similar stage, at a similar age. It does pass. Can you see your bf counsellor again though to rule out any specific problems?

Have you tried other feeding positions such as lying down?

Hope it gets better soon.

I had this with DD2 and a bf counsellor suggested leaning back so that gravity meant it was more difficult for her to pull off, which did work to an extent. I also think I was misreading her cues a bit and she didn't need to feed as often as I was sticking her on!! At this age bf should be well established and maybe she's so good at it, she doesn't need to feed for as often or as long as she did previously?

Was the latch you were using before not working then?

I expect on of the bf experts will be along soon, but lying down with her takes away the need to support her. She can lie on her side and you move yourself into position so she can reach your nipple. I know realistically, you can't do that for an extended period, but going to bed for a day like Indith said is a really good idea.

If she's extra fussy in the evenings, it could be separate from the feeding issue. Is she getting enough sleep? Fussiness/ colic in the evenings is said by some paediatricians to be linked to overtiredness/ overstimulation rather than feeding or wind. Households tend to get much busier in the evening and babies often react badly to that.

Well done for getting this far.

We had the same thing naturelover, in fact DD has been through several fussy patches (now 16 months and just hit another ffs) and yes, they do pass and yes, they are extremely irritating/worrying/wearing at the time so you have my BIG sympathy.

Lying down and skin contact v good suggestions. I remember reading somewhere about declaring a 'breastfeeding emergency' and taking to your bed for 36 hours to get sorted! I found that, particularly in the evening, when the fussing and howling got too much that plonking DD in the sling on DP and sending them out for a good walk (at least 30 mins, sometimes longer) worked wonders. Do you have that option? There was a definite overtired issue for us around that time and DD was often asleep in the sling by the time DP reached the end of the road.

We also swaddled her occasionally, just to keep her contained for long enough to get a good latch and relax, even though she wasn't wild about it.

Another thought - have you tried a nursing pillow? I found them much better than regular cushions as they didn't slide away so supported my arms and DDs head/body much better.

I wanted to get the latch checked in case it was the cause of pain not just the thrush. Seems I wasn't getting her to open her mouth wide enough, and wasn't holding her straight enough. My arms and wrists were sore and I also wanted advice on holding her comfortably (because of her length and weight - but not able to hold up her head yet).

I might give the skin on skin a try today. Good suggestion.

I haven't fed her lying down for a while, mainly because I wanted to master cradle hold so that I could feed when out and about. In the first couple of weeks we had immense difficulty latching on at all, and lying down was the only thing that worked.

She is definitely more fussy in the evenings - and it seems most babies are. But now it's all the feeds that are a struggle.

Thanks for all your advice.

Congratulations to you. I could have written your post (in fact when dd was 7 weeks I think I did!). I had all of the same problems with a big baby and cradle hold making me and her uncomfortable. Throw in the 6 week growth spurt causing unsettled and fussy behaviour (particularly seeming very hungry then fussing at the breast) and it was a nightmare. I think I offered shares in my soul to anybody who would help.

I never got on with the cradle hold. DD was heavy (consistently on the 99th centile for weight and length), the number of cushions I needed to get her in the right place and the weight off my cs scar was just so much faff that dd was often fed up before we had started. I exclusively used the rugby/clutch hold when sitting and feeding, lay down to feed her at night and fed her in the sling the rest of the time. She is 23 weeks and will only feed in the cradle position if she's absolutely starving or will refuse and wait until I can offer an alternative.

I also concur with the brilliant twelveyeargap, getting enough sleep is of paramount importance. 3 or 4 naps a day definite minimum for a happy baby (although I hasten to add that at that age dd refused to sleep during the day at all- she is better now).

It gets easier and easier I promise. I found the 7 week mark the hardest time because of the growth spurt and dd becoming more impatient and aware of what was around her.

Agree with Indith too, get your kit off. Helps no end.

Well done for persevering!

Hi nature have a look at this may help

both of my boys were very fretty in the evening at this stage

Message withdrawn

Nature - being able to breastfeed easily in public will come with time and is not dependant on being able to master the cradle hold. When my nipples were sore in the first few weeks, I managed to do the under the arm/ rugby hold whilst having a meal out. I found it a little harder to be as discreet as I wanted to be so brought out a light cotton wrap/ shawl thingy to throw over my shoulder.

For now, best to find the easiest way for you and the baby and work on the rest later?

DD1 used to do mad thrashing about, we used to feed lying down at home, other people's houses and so on. We had a spell where she just had to wait if we were out, because she wouldn't settle to it anyway.

What I find helps if I unavoidably had to feed in a cafe or whatever, say I'm feeding from the left side, I'd rest my left foot on another chair, knee bent, then baby's head is resting on my left arm (quite high up), then my arm would be resting on my left thigh. A bit less of a struggle.

I can't thank you enough for all of your suggestions.

I just spent 3 hours in bed with DD, first she was on my chest, skin to skin, and found the breast herself and had a really tranquil feed. Half an hour later fed on the other side. No stress, no struggling, no pain for me! Then we lay side by side and she had another feed, again no stress either. And my arms aren't tired! I think I will cancel a few plans in the coming days to focus on successful feeding.

Thanks again.

good to hear

Hooray! Well done.

so nice to read the success stories

Have only read the op, but my ds hardly ever fed for more than 5 mins. He took a full feed in that time and would happily go 3 hrs till the next feed and his weight gain was spot on. He'd get very agro if I tried to make him continue feeding once he'd had enough.

If she's happy for the first 5 mins then starts fretting. Maybe she just doesn't want any more.

Have you tried assuming that she's finished once she starts fretting -what happens then?

I used to worry that ds didn't feed for long enough, as all the books go on about it taking 15 mins to reach the hind milk etc etc, but as he was fine after 5 mins I had to assume I had a fast let down and he was an efficient feeder.

I may be way off the mark, but HTH

JoJay yes she's definitely a fast feeder, usually about 10 mins per side and quite often she's not interested in the second side. I seem to have a fast letdown.

She's been a lot less fussy generally this evening, happier than in previous days, I wonder if this was a result of the skin-to-skin earlier. Why didn't I think of trying that a few days ago?

I just fed her lying down again and she was latching on and off a lot, but because I wasn't holding her in my arms, it seemed less like a wrestling match and I'm not as worn out. Evenings really are the worst time for most babies aren't they?

naturelover, in the evening when your LO is more unsettled have you tried having a bath with her. I did this a few times and it really helped both of us relax.

Well done for persevering its bloody hard work you are doing brilliantly.

Naturelover, if it makes you feel any better, I understand that crying and fussiness peaks at around 6-8 weeks and thereafter improves until you get to around 12-13 weeks, when most babies become "settled". This was very much true for my baby (now 20 weeks).

Once you've got the feeding sussed, you might find that your baby is ready to start going to bed earlier at night and you only have to deal with a little grumpiness in late afternoon.

Well done again.

Yep, little ones often settle around 12-16 weeks.

We used to call 5-8pm the witching hours!

Arrggh - two steps forward and one step back it seems like.

The fussiness isn't too bad since I've done skin-on-skin today and yesterday, but I'm still experiencing a lot of pain on one side, and am wondering if I should go back to GP and ask for more fluconazole. Thrush has now been a problem for about four weeks. I have hardly experienced a completely pain-free feed at all in the whole seven weeks since she was born.

If you've suffered from thrush in your milk ducts, how long did it take to clear up? I'm tackling it on several fronts: diet, probiotics, Daktarin, fluconazole (now finished 14-day course).

In answer to the question about bf pillows, I do have one, but I think it's designed to cling to a bigger waist than mine (and I'm not thin) because it seems to slip forward and DD slides into the gap between me and the pillow.

What NoBiggy said - i've done that, put one foot up on a telephone directory,sat cross legged, crossed one leg over the other with a cushion under my thigh - I know the textbook way is to keep both feet flat on the floor, but with long babies, their length tends to drag them away from you slightly so any way that keeps them closer in helps. If you do lift your leg up, try holding bub with your opposite arm as well, rather than on the same side as your leg is propped up,then you can rest your hand and wrist on your leg to balance the load out a bit.
Lisa x