I've lost my letdown, DD seems constantly hungry and I have blocked ducts...AGAIN

[IamDaisy]

title says it all really. DD is 19 weeks. I've had various feeding issues (see previous threads under daisyandbabybootoo), but after a bout of mastitis a few weeks ago things seem to have settled down.

I was expressing a feed about this time (DD was sleeping from 8 till 6) to avoid engorgement, but have had several blocked ducts, so stopped expressing over a week ago. All was going well, but over the last few days babyboo has been constantly hungry, like literally coming off and then five minutes later looking for more, and then today again I have a blocked duct that I can't clear and am in agony.

I tried expressing earlier today and again just now, but am not getting any let down (even when DD is in front of me), and after pumping from both boobs for 10 mins, have less than an ounce (my previous pumps at this time were yielding 5 ozs (that makes me sound like a prize jersey )

I'm getting really fed up with it all. Is my milk drying up and she isn't getting enough? Before she went to bed she came off a couple of times and was howling? there was no usual milky dribble.

She also wants feeding constantly, but with a 5 year old DS to look after and a husband who works away all week, I don't know if I have the strength to continue. She has also started waking once or twice in the night where before she was sleeping through.

My boobs seem to be getting bigger as well and I thought they would have settled down by this time.

I'm thinking about giving up . Part of me (the part that lasted six weeks with DS) says do it, but the part that has managed this far inspite of adversity says keep going.

I realise I'm ranting and you have all lost interest by this time, but I needed to write that down. sorry it is so long.

First of all very well done for getting through mastitis and keeping feeding. Not many people have the info or support to do it, even though it's one of the best ways to keep it at bay/help speed up recovery.

Your supply won't be 'drying up', but your body has adjusted to you not expressing at this time. It will adjust again, but it may take a few gos. There can be nothing more demoralising than sitting for ages with a pump and getting very little but it will increase if you can face persisting.

If your DD is hungry, and you do want to continue BFing, do keep offering the breast whenever she wants it, cos that's the only way to make sure your supply keeps up with demand. Babes can go through fussy patches with feeding, coming on and off the breast, wriggling, messing about etc. She's coming into the teething zone, or maybe she's coming down with something?

What have you tried to help with the blocked ducts? I have a few suggestions, but dont' want to tell you what you already know!

thanks mij

I've tried massaging, and hot flannels (and was trying to express, obviously) all to no avail. The pain is right underneath my boob at the side closest to my arm rather than cleavage IYSWIM, so is very difficult to massage. I can feel the lump and do not want another bout of mastitis as I'm going on holiday on Thursday.

I even spoke to my HV today about weaning, in desperation, but I know that two teaspoons of baby rice isn't going to fill her up like a good feed will.

Strangely after all the probs we have had, I kind of feel more determined than ever to keep going, but it is very very hard

oh, she has been getting very playful and coming off a lot. after a few times of her mucking about I've assumed she was done and stopped, then went on to other boob next time, even if only an hour between feeds. should I put her back on the first breast? Have I hampered my supply?

how we have evolved as a species I just don't know...this is by no means second nature or easy.

No real advice Daisy, just wanted to say how impressed I am with how well you've done in really difficult circumstances! Blocked ducts suck as does expressing IMO which I personally find incredibly difficult and demoralising. You obviously know the routine with blocked ducts. I find that my baby carrot is much fussier when feeding on a boob with a blocked duct, and she often seems to sense a problem in the boob before I've realised it was coming on. I know that a blocked duct can really reduce your pumping output on that side until the duct clears, but usually things then can get back to normal.

A thought...when I've had blocked ducts, I have sometimes found a tiny little white plug of milk in my nipple, no bigger than the size of a pin head - I'm not talking about a milk blister here, I think it's described as a "plugged pore" but it has a similar effect - and by gently squeezing the nipple it has popped out (like squeezing a blackhead!) followed by all the backed up milk which is causing the pressure in the breast. Take a good look at your nipple in case you can see one of these.

Also, have you tried lecithin? I can't recommend it from personal experience as I haven't started using it myself yet, but I have some that I intend to use. I believe it can decrease the viscosity of milk, making it less likely to clog in the ducts. Apparently it does work for some women to reduce recurring blocked ducts.

Good luck, and I hope things pick up soon!

daisy {hug}{hug} hello again

nothing really to add. i am impressed that you have kept going so long through all this.
i have no real advice to add but here in solidarity.

when i get blocked duct in left boob - same spot each time a long gap in fedding times - i kinda have to lean over poor dd and have nipple hanging down into her mouth. it has been the only way to clear it. not a pretty sight i am sure and poor dd probably has night terrors about that big boob coming at her again.
hope someone comes along to help you out.x

Aw thanks vlc

I've not heard of using lecithin; will do some research.

nothing obviously amiss with my nipple

I just had a peek at your pics....your little carrot (who isn't very carroty ) is gorgeous. I thought my DD had lots of hair....

WO, thanks again for your support, it means such a lot to me

I'll try leaning over her tomorrow, but you know, I'm sitting here thinking do I give her some formula before I go to bed in the hope that she will sleep through? I know full well that it isn't going to help clear the blocked duct, but the thought of feeding her when it is sore..... I'm losing the will to continue really, but will persevere and talk to my DH on Wednesday when he comes home. We're off to centerparcs in belgium for half term, and the last thing I need is "stopping BF engorgement"....not nice at all.

WO, you know tallulahbelle don't you? My family are in fife and I'm trying to arrange a mini meet up with tallulah and a couple of other ladies from our AN/PN thread in Glasgow sometime in the Christmas week. It would be lovely to meet you if you fancy joining us

Try positioning her so that her lower jaw is working the area where the blocked duct is - rugby ball works for the armpit side ones , I've had them in the past and it seems to do the job, esp if you do the warm flannel just before, if it's going to work you can feel the relief very quickly.
lisa X

Thanks Daisy! She is quite the teeny little munchkin, and we are very proud of her hair! She has natural highlights which make it look like I've had her down to Toni & Guy. And your two are scrumptious too - lovin the Christmas pics!

Got my lecithin from Holland & Barrett, and there's some info on Kellymom about it. You can get capsules or granular stuff to sprinkle on your cornflakes!

I don't know why I seem to get blocked ducts, I keep reading it's often a dodgy latch, but can't actually identify a problem with it. When I'm struggling with blocked ducts, I try to remember to keep changing feeding positions, but TBH I think I might just have "sticky milk"!!!!!

daisy - woudl love to meet up with you all! we are just a month or so apart after all! do indeed know T and the lovely E.

btw - do NOT beat yourself up about the amount you express. it is not an indcator of how much milk dd can get directly from you. some nights i fill a bottle- others it is a paltry dribble!
coudl you give her some of the expressed milk tonight togive yourself a break?? i know how bloody demoralising it is to feed when it is agony.
dd went through a real feeding frenzy a while back - another elusive growth spurt but from reading here - i think it can be the norm.
in the summer - headig on holiday - it all went pear shaped for me with blocked ducts. bf specialist whom i got out of bed as i was about to board a ferry told me to hold cold compresses on it and take ibuprofen to ease swelling pain. i spent the ferry journey with cans of coke up my jumper! (talk about unflattering looking boobs!!) it did help a bit.

let us know how you get on. head to bed now and try to get some sleep.

dodgy latch I can relate to; her latch does seem very shallow. Usually if there is a blockage (and where the mastitis was) is at the top of my boob where it evens out into my cleavage (iyswim). This is the first time I've had anyhitng underneath.

thanks jamila...I've been doing rugby hold today, but it's just been making her more giggly and giddy as she can make direct eye contact. she is at that really playful stage as well which isn't helping

oh WO....sonds horrible. I saw one of your threads; did you have an abcess?

I'll make sure I've got some nice cold cans with me just in case Actually, that doesn't sound like a bad idea; it's the sort of pain that feels like cold will soothe better than hot.

Right am off to bed, will give her a dream feed before I turn in and hope that'll keep her going.

WO, I'll CAT you nearer the time. I'll be around from 22nd - 29th December

oh, thanks everyone

night. hope you get some kip. xo

4 monthers can be a pita to feed. faffing about, popping on and off. Quiet and dark helps sometimes. They quite often feed so poorly during the day that they need to make it up at night. All part of discovering the world.

Very very unlikely your milk is drying up. I would ask though are you using any hormonal contraceptives? Some women are affected more than others.

8 till 6 you must have thick milk!lol. My dd2 is 13 months and has never slept that long. My dd1 first slept through about 15 months.

When she wakes can you tuck her in beside you and doze while feeding?

you are doing a fabulous thing and it only gets easier from here on in. Well done you.

Oh daisy, I knew this thread would be yours. we are both having a crap time with the feeding. Why do we keep putting ourself through it? (a question dh keeps asking me & i just can't answer)

the pulling off/let down thing sounds a big like my probs with dd. kellymom talks about creating an association with the let down e.g. glass of water (or a piece of choccie?!). It's a vicious cycle with the let down, you need to relaxed to get it but if you think you can't feed your baby that's not very relaxing! I can't always get a let down with the pump either ("patentend let-down system" my arse!

Have you tried fenugreek for the milk supply? Have no idea about the blocked duct thing though, as I haven't had it.

I really hope you get to enjoy your holiday. You've done so well to get this far. I totally understand why you don't want to give up. I guess it can't always be this hard (that's what I keep telling myself) surely at some point it will suddenly fall into place?! Good luck, call me if you need to.

icarus, thanks for your message, that makes total sense as she is a little beggar at the moment with wanting to see what's going on in the world.

I think maybe she's not draining the breast completely and is coming off because there is something interesting to look at rather than because she is done feeding.

I'm going to stick with it as long as I can, and I really hope it does get easier...

...but I was told that at three weeks, then six, then ten then twelve, then sixteen.......

this easy time just keeps moving further away every time I have it in my sights...she'll be five and I still won't have got there

thanks for the support bumper . you take care too, and lurk when you can!

Oh, and no to the oral contraceptives.

Am using the tried and tested contraceptive method of total abstinence ...

...much to DHs dismay!

What kind of bras are you wearing? Might be worth trying the sleep feeding bras which are more stretchy if blocked ducts are an issue?

I've got a couple of royce jasmine bras and some freya rosalie.

Each time I've had blocked ducts and then when I had the mastitis, I had thought it was the freya bras as they are quite tight around the underband (but the next size up was swamping me), but then things sorted themselves out. I think it might be those bras as I do notice pain more when I wear them for more than a couple of days in a row (not the same bra, I have three...I'm not a dirty mink honest!!) I've put on a bit of weight as well , which is probably making them tighter than they were.

today I'm wearing a bravado double plus thingy and I must admit to being hugely more comfortable....I'm just not enjoying the mono-bust that it gives me though

I was hoping I wouldn't need to buy any more bras, but if they are making me sore....

I'm off on holiday on thursday though and it's a healthy activity break where DH and I are de-toxing. Hopefully if I lose the extra weight things will resolve themselves.

and if not, I'll sue bravissimo for the anguish it's caused me as they fitted me for both styles of bra

I have a freya rosalie and I don't find it all that comfortable. I like anita underwired feeding bras but the fit has to be spot on.

I know what you mean about the mono boob look. As if being covered in various baby stuff isn't enough .

sorry Daisy, offered suggestions then buggered off! Although most of the pp have said it all, there are a couple of other things:

1. The lower jaw positioning thing really worked for me, I had blocked ducts almost weekly when dd was 7-9 months, think I never properly cleared the first one so got lots of practice! If the rugby hold isn't working, you could try combining the 'leaning over' with lining up lower jaw with blockage, or, just for comedy value (for both of you) lying on your side and drape dd on her tummy over you... or anything else you can think of!

2. Have you tried a nursing necklace? You can make your own with a bit of well-tied leather or string with bits of interesting, baby-friendly stuff threaded on. It worked for my DD for long enough to get her past the 'oh, guess what, I can look around the room in the middle of a feed' stage.

3. Let down - mine is still variable when pumping, but I found that visualising dd latching on and feeding contentedly helped more than looking at photos or even looking at her! It might be worth a shot...

If you're worried you're swapping sides too often, you could try putting her back on the same side but pump from the non-blocked boob to keep your supply bobbing along.

I admire your determination. Stick with it, if it's right for you

thanks for your advice Mij...we're clear again now, ad I'm convinced it is the bras that are causing it. We did rugby ball hold and it seemed to do the trick. She has quite a marked recessive chin and has always struggled with latching on properly.

I'm glad I got it sorted before my hols tomorrow

hi Daisy - so nice to 'bump' into you again - I haven't been on Mumsnet for ages -actually not been since dd was born on 2nd June - what is your dd's birth date?

I noticed the postnatal threads you are on for June 2007 babies and will go and have a look just now!

Daisy - I am so incredibly sad that I gave up breastfeeding (only last week) but it was just not working for me - I feel like such a failure as I put my heart on the fact that I want to breastfeed my baby until she is at least a year old, but what can you do when your little one is just not interested in Mr Boobie??

I really tried my utmost best to keep the flow going for the past 4 months, but it is HARD work pumping and pumping and pumping, or shall I say expressing milk a couple of times a day. I did it until a week ago, but then I decided I cannot go on like that - it consumed all my time and energy.

The hv said that I deserve a medal for keeping it up for 4 months.

Anyway - very disappointing for me, but I know that dd got the 'good stuff' for more than 4 months and that makes me happy.

I had to wean my breasts as you apparently get very bad lumps if you just all of a sudden stop.

On the supply side - I used to have a lot of milk running from my breasts and got up to 12 fl oz per pumping session (I am not joking!), but one day I woke up and then all of a sudden my milk supply went down to 7 fl oz per session and for the life of me I could not get it up again no matter how hard I tried - expressing 3 to 4 times a day.

It was just not worth sitting here pumping for more than half hour for that amount of milk and dd was still not interested (had a sip here and there but ended up smiling at me most of the time while on the boob!). It is a shame to say but it is just MUCH easier to give her formula milk!

Anyway - good luck with the breastfeeding and let me know how you are doing otherwise!! Sure I will get some hints when I read the other threads you are on.

lots of hugs