Don't know if I can take bf anymore. Is it time to throw in the towel?

[betterthanbritney]

Hi all.
My BF dd is now 4and a half months old. She is so fussy and cries almost all the way through a feed. The amount of time she spends feeding has dropped and sometimes she'll feed for 2 minutes before crying and pulling away constantly. It's weird because it seems she wants to nurse as she comes back to the breast but then after maybe not even one suck she's crying and trying to jab her head away.
I'll try and switch sides and she may be happy for another minute or so before she starts fussing.

For her first 12 weeks she was on the 50th centile but she has gradually been dropping and is now on the 25th.

I express for her and she takes a bottle with no problems.

Different positions or times of day don't seem to make any difference.

She varies between co-sleeping and being in her cot (almost total co-sleeping at mo), and is waking up every 2-4 hours. This is fine as cs makes it no probs. She used to sleep between 5-8 hours.

She poos almost every day but sometimes it's green tinged and mucusy. Lots of wees. She is also a happy baby except for when she's feeding.

My idea is that I'm not making enough as when my let down happens she is happy for those couple of minutes.
I am trying Mother's Help tea -verdict still out.

It's been like this for about 6 weeks now. I thought I'd just ride it out but tbh it's very distressing. Her rejecting me nusing her when she should be comforted by it makes me so sad. We've come so far and so want to get to 6months exclusively bfing.
Don't want to give her formula. I know it's not the end of the world - god - I thought it was supposed to be easy by now. We've never had problems with latching or pain (after the first week ).
What do I do? Thanks so much for any help.

could she have thrush in her mouth - look for white spots - this causes baby to keep coming off the breast & can cause them discomfort whilst bf. Can be solved with an anti-thrush cream from the gp.

My DS (now 11 weeks) kept pulling off the breast and seeming v frustrated, and he too dropped several centiles and was only putting on 3 ozs or so a week.

I went to my local bf support group at my wits' end and they suggested an improved hold to help him latch better - he'd been lying awkwardly and giving up after getting the easy bit, the foremilk. Because I'd had no pain I'd assumed my latch was OK.

It helped immediately - for the last three weeks he's gained 8-10ozs per week.

I know you've been bf for longer, but maybe that's something worth looking at?

I have exactly the same problem as you and it is so distressing isn't it. ( I actually just posted above before i read yours) You see everyone else latch their babies on and they suck away happily and become lovely and contented, all the while I am struggling to keep hold of a writhing screaming ds who wants to latch on but as you say pulls off screaming and sqirming - so demoralising. I too have tried everything and every position, but with no luck. Tonight I reached the point where I just wanted to give up, which was making me so so sad. As a last ditch attempt I just tried nipple shields and have just had about 20 mins of the most relaxed and calm feed ever - I was amazed. I think my problem was fast let down, even though I was convinced that it wasn't as didn't see heaps of milk around his mouth etc - anyway maybe this is also your problem. They may be worth a try.
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Poss a good idea to get latch checked, best be on the safe side especially as you want to carry on, if no support group in your area contact someone like nct.

It sounds like dd could be teething, monitor poos & if concerned go to doctor but my dd has similar poos - too much drool with teething!

If she is teething then the pressure of bf in her mouth initially will be a releif like when she bites on something like a teething ring, then the pain takes over, she prob wants to feed but finds it painful.

Does she have rosy cheeks?

Have you noticed the gums changing shape at all?

If my dd has a bad teething day I get out the calpol, or bongela/dentinox teething gel just before a feed to help her gums, or I was recommended ashton & parsons teething powder (herbal) which sometimes works too!

I agree wih Kittypower- could be a fast letdown. My ds was like this. Does your dd seem to be gulping frantically and coming off just to catch her breath? When I felt the letdown I would let some of the milk squirt into a bib/ muslin until the flow subsided a bit, he would feed better then.

On a positive, if it is a fast letdown it makes things so much easier when they're older and more able to take the fast flow- my ds is done in a few minutes now (at age 1)

Hope that you are OK

Hi I've just posted this link on another message www.drjacknewman.com. He has fab BF video clips. I had the same problem as you. My daughter went from 50% to 7%. Slightly different problem in that she was on for ages but not actually being able to take much milk from me. I watched the clips for a good hour one evening and could then check that she was actually swallowing her milk correctly -she wasn't - I used the video clips to adjust her latch and then went on to BF very successfully. Good luck

btbritney, congratulations on getting this far. You've already got some really good suggestions on here. I just wanted to add - have you changed any products you're using, either body wash/ perfume etc on yourself or washing powder/ softener etc on your clothes?
I realise its easier said than done to relax - but might dd be picking up on your anxiety when its bf time?
Also, please remember that HVs strongly advise against co-sleeping.
Good luck,

Britney - nothing extra to add, think there are some good suggestions below but just wanted to give some support and bump in case anyone has any more. Let us know what you try and if it helps.

okay so you know when you're letting down and she's fussing between the letdowns not during? the bobbing on and off and mucousy poo sounds like possible over active letdown, but if you're sure the fussing is between letdowns then it sounds more like frustration at slow delivery.

does she have many bottles? can you tie the start of this behaviour in with the introduction of a bottle? it can be much easier to get milk from a bottle and that can lead to frustration with the breast.

also i know from experience how upsetting it is for you when they won't settle to feed even though you know they're hungry (we've been battling a very similar frustration between letdowns over the last few weeks and we've both been getting increasingly distressed) and then your tension can inhibit your letdown.

youn say it isn't any better in any position so does she fuss exactly the same during her night feeds in bed? i know for us the night feeds have always been much better because we're both more relaxed, she gets fed at the first squeak and i think our latch is better then too.

firstly i'd strongly recommend getting to see a bfc, talk to them and try to get them to observe a full feed. there's nct and lll and someone else i don't remember - do a search for bf helplines/counsellors. second try to find a bf support group, go along and talk to other mums who've been there. have a look at the jack newman and breastfeeding.com videos and try to perfect your latch while you're waiting to see a bfc.

do you have any other kids or are you free to take to your bed for a day or two? we just did this over the weekend, lots of skin to skin and hot and cold running snacks provided by dp and you just feed whenever they need to round the clock. it's the best way to boost your supply. i can't tell yet what it's done for my supply, but it's certainly helped me to relax more about the whole thing and that seems to be making our feeds less fraught.

you don't have to stop if you don't want to. you can fix the bf, have faith

oh god btb this sounds like exactly what is happening to me! in have just started a thread saying i might have to start mix feeding. will read rest of the posts...

i'm having the same problem with dd refusing the breast, or going on for a few sucks then refusing. i'm wondering if it is a slow let down and dd is getting impatient. sometimes it helps to try and get a let down with a pump but sometimes i just can't get it but fortunately have had ebm

what's worse is you get so frustrated and worried that you can't feed your baby that it inhibits your let down and dd gets too worked up to even try. kellymom has some good articles on creating associations to stimulate the let down.

god, all your sentiments are exactly what i am thking. i know ff isn't the end of the world but i don't want to stop. but it is bloody hard still (dd is 17 weeks) and my dh is losing patience and wants me to stop.

i wish i could help more but you are not alone. apparently 4 months can be a fussy period whether bfing or ffing.

also, i was wondering if the bottles were having an affect. don't want to give up the ebm though so i am going to try a doidy cup to see if that interferes less.

Oh I'm really this is what was happeningt to us at this age and i started mixed feeding and realise maybe I didn't need to now. dont give up everyone.

Thanks so much everyone. It's great to know I'm not alone, as everyone else I see seems to be in the honeymoon period of bfing.
Will go next week to the local bf cafe. They were so helpful when I started out.
Will also try all the other suggestions one at a time so I can see which one actually works.
Bumper - is the doidy cup supposed to be good and is it not too early to introduce a cup instead of a teat?
Btw, bumper, - I've made it obvious to my dh I want his support for bf. Maybe you could let yours know your point of view......?
Don't think shes teething yet and also I thought that thrush would have been passed on to me, but as I said there;s no pain.
I think Mumsnet is such a godsend - and it's all thanks to the guys who contribute. Thank you loads.

One last suggestion - is she arching her back when she pulls away? My dd did this (seemed to prefer being upside down, in fact) and flailed her arms. A feed took over an hour by the time she'd pulled off, writhed around and given a couple of sucks before doing the same, etc. I discovered that she had silent reflux which was giving her oesophagitis. The final giveaway was black tissue-like threads in her poos - apparently this was blood form her oesophagus, poor mite. She also had other probs like excessive wind from food intolerances too, which also caused her to writhe around to try to shift it. I think the reflux was aggravated by the intolerances, and mucusy nappies were a definite symptom. Just a thought.