smoking and feeding

[lucyk]

help me to help a friend who is planning to feed herself and smoke has anyonedone it and what affects did it have on the children

OK hands up. I smoke and breastfeed.

I started smoking again when dd was about two weeks old (at the end of my tether - I just though, hang on a minute, I remember something that both calms you down and wakes you up...). I know I should give up, but I will certainly not move on to formula simply because I smoke because, as far as I can see, the benefits of b/fing far outweigh any possible risks (BTW I never smoke in the same room as the baby and usually smoke outside or at least near an open window).

My baby is perfectly healthy. As it goes my mother also smoked and breastfed and we (5 of us) were also perfectly healthy. As to proper information, all I have read is that you shouldn't sleep in the same bed as your baby if you smoke (not sure why - over-drowsiness presumably).

I also try to compensate for the toxins dd receives by my smoking and b/fing by keeping her and me away from all other toxins. We live in a non-polluted area (isn't living in London like smoking 4 fags a day or something?), I eat very little processed food, she gets lots of fresh air etc etc. Probably doesn't make any difference but it makes me feel good.

Anyway is your friend pregnant and smoking? or has she decided to take it up again asap? If the latter then you could remind her of the expense/that she has done so well already etc. If the former however I suspect that there is very little you can do to persuade her not to anyway - we smokers have ways of rationalising everything!

PS I think part of the reason I took up smoking again was to have some connection with my old high-living life. Apart from smoking, I am Felicity Kendal from the Good Life (and we even have chickens). how sad is that?

Agree with Lucy123, the benefits of B/F even when smoking outweigh risks of formula feeding. A friend of mine smokes, feeds and drinks Red Bull!
Her son is one happy chappie

My M-I-L smoked & drank heavily throughout her two pregnanices & breast feeding, both her children are very fit & healthy in their early 40s (she has died of lung cancer herself - but that's not the issue here).

Here's a link: Laleche FAQ Main point is that heavy smoking (more than 20 a day) can depress milk supply, cause some bad reactions, etc etc but it's worse for formula-fed babies, ie better to smoke and BF rather than smoke and formula feed. But then again, it's better to give up entirely!!

I read somewhere that you still exhale the toxins from tobacco up to 1 hour after smoking and this is why it is not recommended that you sleep with your baby if you smoke. As an ex smoker I am now anti smoking but how far can you take the issue - am I supposed to stop my mother holding my baby because she smoked a ciggie 10 mins before? Lucy 123 is right to say smokers can rationalise everything. So long as your friend is not bf whilst smoking over the baby I am sure no harm will be done to the baby - my friend was a smoker (outside) and a bf to 12 mths and her son is quite healthy.

Second hand smoke is one of the main causes of cot deaths, and if that doesn't get them it is still increasing their chances of developing cancer. Not a nice gift to your children. The nicotine goes straight into the breast milk and although the damage is ambiguous. The one garantee is you are getting your kid hooked and once you stop breastfeeding he/she'll be a twichy case. Nicotine is more addictive than heroine. Anyway I use to smoke but I'm cured now I much prefer living my live with all five of my senses fully developped, rather than clotted up with tar.

Isn't it amazing how smokers deceive themselves? Sorry if this sounds rude, I know it's a tough habit to break free from and my best friend has been struggling to keep her smoking down while pregnant with very little success so far.

But to persuade yourself that the risks of nicotine and tar in breastmilk are lower than the 'risks' of formula milk is a real classic! Formula is a bigger poison than tobacco - why didn't the HVs tell us that?!!

None of us is perfect and we all just muddle along as best we can - and if smoking makes you a better and happier mother...

Yes, nicotine in breastmilk may be addictive for the baby (don't know of any studies either way)but formula milk does not give you (mother or baby) any of the benefits of breastmilk, just nutrients.Tar doesn't get into breastmilk AFAIK, as it's inhaled.

Agree with mears (she's always right )better to b/f and smoke than not b/f out of some misguided idea that your distance from the baby will protect it from the harmful effects.

BTW, not a smoker, so not deceiving myself. I was b/fed, and my mother smoked.So far, so good...

Catt - the fact is that nicotine in the breastmilk is certainly less of a risk to the baby's health thatn switching to formula. A breastfed baby is better off than a formula fed baby, whether or not the mother smokes. I quote from the leading textbook on substances in milk - Medications and Mothers Milk by Dr Thomas Hale, all researched and referenced. 'The risk of nicotine via breastmilk is far less than the risk of formula feeding. Mothers should be advised to limit smoking as much as possible, and to smoke only after they have fed their infant.'

Mothers who smoke should not be discouraged from breastfeeding their babies.

Thanks tiktok, I knew that one of you b/f gurus would come up with the info!!

Maybe I'm being a bit sensitive here but I formula fed my baby and have a perfectly healthy baby (the idea that formula being thought of a more of a hazard then tobacco seems a bit bizarre)

Catmac, I don't think we can say that second-hand smoke is one of the main causes of cot death.

The link is epidemiological, for sure - that cot death is overwhelmingly more common in the babies of mothers who smoked in pg, and who continue to smoke afterwards.

But actual causation is speculative - it could well be that toxins in the mother's breath, or the atmosphere, affect the baby's breathing, and/or that the baby's resistance to infection is lowered because of this exposure. We just don't know.

I know it sounds like I am splitting hairs, but I think it's good to remember that cot death probably has multiple causes, and some of them work together, and that it's difficult to rank them in order.

I do think mothers may need a lot of help in giving up smoking. Most parents feel bad about smoking and wish they could give up, for their own health and that of their children. But it is an addictive thing, and some people find it extremely hard to find the right approach for them, as we all know.

Dizzymummy- I think the emphasis should be on the benefits of breastmilk, which formula clearly does not have, rather than the risks of formula. If formula were "poison", it wouldn't be sold in the shops, but it cannot be claimed to have any of the positive health effects that breastmilk has. BTW, formula can be harmful if not mixed correctly (many mothers think that it is better for the baby to make it a bit thicker) or if bottles are not sterilised thoroughly). Breastmilk is always just the right formulation for that baby,at that time of day,whatever the weather, if the baby has D+V, high temperature etc, etc, etc...

I think I've been misinterpreted here - when I said that I will continue to b/f and smoke because the benefits outweigh the risks, I meant the risks of smoking (given that I never smoke around the baby) are outweighed by the benefit of breastfeeding. I didn't mean that there is a risk in formula feeding (although there is a contamination risk, but I imagine all the mums who responded are very careful to avoid that).

Also Tiktok, you are quite right to point out that the causes of cot death have not been found. In particular you can link almost anything with smoking simply because the majority of smokers are poorer and less educated than non-smokers - and are therefore more likely to live in poor housing etc.

I will be giving up shortly anyway though...

I think it's important to know what we're comparing....actually giving a baby a fag (like Wayne and Waynetta Slob do to Baby Frogmella in Harry Enfield!!) would of course be horribly poisonous...and toddlers have died, eating a cigarette. So in that sense, formula milk would not present anything like the same risk to the baby.

But a baby taking in nicotine via the breastmilk (or as second-hand smoke, from the mother's breath) is not the same thing. The studies show that the potential impact on health may be real, but not as great as the potential impact on health of getting formula instead of breastmilk.

This is not to say that formula milk is a poison, or that babies can't be nourished on formula milk, or that any individual baby has measurable effects of having formula.

Breastmilk, in fact, does not have 'benefits' - it's just the normal, physiological way to feed babies. It has 'benefits' only in the same way as breathing has 'benefits' over being on a ventilator, or walking has 'benefits' over being in a wheelchair, or urinating has 'benefits' over being on dialysis. This is not to equate formula feeding with any of these things, BTW, but to emphasise that one thing is physiological and the other isn't, and to underline the limitations of thinking that bf gives 'benefits'.

Studies indicate that the 'benefits' of feeding physiologically may be affected by smoking, but not erased, and that babies of smoking, bf mothers still 'benefit' from the other 'advantages' of being breastfed.

It's still not a 'good' thing to bf and smoke though.

Making no value judgements on anyone for formula feeding or not, or smoking or not....believe me

Oh what relief! I have only just given up my last breastfeed with my 12 month old (he was starting to chew!). He has been totally b/f and I started smoking again when he was about 2 months old. Not heavily - mainly in the evenings once the kids have gone to bed (my reward after a hard day!) but how guilty have I felt. I have been really worrying about it until I read all these messages - I know I was still doing the right thing by b/fing. So how about we make a pact to give up the fags now Lucy123? We both know we should - I gave up when I was pregnant so I know I can do it. It is hard on the willpower though when you're tired and stressed out. I will if you will (if you haven't already)!