should i bother to continue with bf such a small amount

[moocowme]

my baby was 4 weeks early and is on his second week in the NICU/SCBU and looks like he will be in for about another week. I travel in to see him every day but this takes about an hour both ways so i generally do 11-8 every day with him.

early on i was unsuccesful with bf due to the sheer pain of it but have got some nipple shields now. I am managing to feed him 2-3 times a day for anything from 10-20 minutes. the rest of the time he is on formula and about half of this is tube fed until he can establish better feeding.

I realise my milk will not last forever at this rate and he is probably not getting a lot from me.

should i continue with this? does anyone think its beneficial for DS even at this small amount?

Please, please take Tiktok's advice, and keep it up if you possibly can - you won't regret it! You're doing a great job in what must be such a difficult situation. Good luck!

Keep feeding and keep expressing moocow.
The more formula he has,the less b/milk will be produced or taken.

Moocowme

I gave up feeding ds3 at 3 1/2 months as we were going through a traumatic time - I started again a week later and fed for another 7 weeks before deciding we were actually ready. So do try to feed as much as you can and if you do miss a few don't worry too much as a little bit extra work will get it back Good luck

Moocowme and the lady
your posts bought tears to my eyes. I really, really hope you can manage to get the BF going. I have struggled with it (for various reasons) - but I still mix feed my LO. Not my choice, I absolutely adore breastfeeding, the bonding, closeness and the knowledge that whatever little bit of milk she is getting is goodness.

I am, however, appalled at the attitude of our hospital staff. It happened to me with a small for dates baby and despite me being a normally forceful person, i was so tired after the birth etc - i just took it.

GOOD LUCK - I mirror what everyone says, it really does get better and I hope you are able to get your little one home soon

My little DD was not prem but small and had low blood sugars. She was in SCBU for 10 days and was tube fed what I could express or formula if I couldn't. I really feel for you as it is such a painful thing to have carried and given birth to your baby and then be separated and see them all wired up to tubes. I was not allowed even to try to breastfeed her for the first week and after that only at 3hr intervals with tube top ups afterwards. I still remember the 1st time I was allowed to feed her- they came to fetch me in the night as she was really unsettled and she latched on straight away and fed just for a short time and then fell peacefully asleep. It felt so amazing to be needed by my baby. You are doing so much good for your LO every time you feed him in so many ways. If you want to carry on you definitely should.
Maybe if you keep something going whilst he is in you can gradually increase your supply and phase out the formula when you get home?

Gosh Mamadoc - that must've been awful, my DD was small for dates to 5lb 9oz and had low blood sugars, but luckily no SCBU and we were out in 4 days. But the BF was a mess from the start!

good news today, he has moved to 4 hourly feeds (from 3) so now he gets a bit more sleep and actually starts to wake on his own when he is hungry. only down side to this is that i would only be able to make it to two feeds a day probably as i can't bare the thought of travelling into London on a peak hour train.

still we managed two 40min bf's today. I still wonder if he is getting much this way. when he comes of I can see milk in the nipple shield (yes still using them! its the only way) so i hope this is a good sign. Also he seems contented to suck (on and off a bit) for the whole time on both breasts.
my breasts now feel kinda sore and a bit tight which i also hope is a good sign. they also feel BIG.

if he was not getting much from bf would he keep it up for the 40mins I have hime on for? he is also topped up with a full bottle after this but i am not sure that he needs quite so much but he seems to sleep very well afterwards. I don't suppose it is possible to overfeed him?

The 40 mins is a very good idea as the more he sucks,the more milk you will make.
If you really want to make a go of reducing formula and increasing breastfeeds,you also need some expert advice.

Would really recommend giving one of the helplines a ring.
I am a member of Assoc for Breastfeeding Mothers

08444 122 949

Moocowme - I really sympathise with you. My DD2 was in NICU for 6 weeks. I expressed for her (she couldn't breastfeed) for 9 months and it was bloody hard work!!

If you do want to keep your supply up, persevere with expressing in between the breastfeeds. You may need to try different pumps, on different settings. Expressing at night is also valuable as I believe one of the hormones involved in milk production is higher at night.

Any breastmilk your baby gets is helping him so well done you

i am not expressing in between feeding him as i don't have a machine and not sure how i would get one with visiting him daily for such a length of time. i think the hospital rents them but then i would have to take it home on the train. they had me try one while i was still an inpatient but it was a big metal thing and scared the hell out of me so am not game to ry it again. plus i find i still get a tingling senstaion on the way to visit him. i am hoping this is a good sign.

The tingling is a good sign, but two feeds a day might not stimulate you enough for when he comes home/increases his feeds.

Can you ask to see the hospital's Infant Feeding Advisor? Most NICUs have them. She can help you practically, as well as maybe advising on pumps if you want to express. My hospital's NICU had a small portable pump I could use in private, and my HV lent me one to use at home which was not too big and noisy. That way you don't have to lug one around.

I don't think you have to pay to rent them if your baby is in NICU/SCBU, but obviously this may be different in different areas.

Association for Breastfeeding Mothers hires them out at a very moderate sum.

How about trying a hand pump rather than electric. They are cheap and small and you can get them from Boots or any chemist. It is less efficient but at least you are in control of the suction. I remember I was using the hospital electric pump once and DH being a man could not resist fiddling with it. What does this button do I wonder he asked as he turned the suction up to warp factor 10 and I screamed in agony!

ok well milk is still flowing, not sure he is latching on right as he got a damp spot near his arm today. the nurse seems to think i need to get him to feed quicker as i had him on for about 45mins today and he still wanted 50ml from a bottle after this. i can definelty see that he is getting breast milk just not sure how much. shall continue as it seems to still be flowing. can't wait for him to come home from the hospital either they say it could be only a few days away now. after he comes home i shall have more time and might be able to get a manual pump to try out and see how much i am producing.

pumping isn't a good method to judge how much you're getting, as some women can't pump much but baby is able to suck all they need - so don't rely on that as a method, or it could upset you !

I'm surprised actually that the hospital aren't doing more to encourage you to express whilst you are there and supporting you to express at home, given the guidelines to get everyone breast feeding ! and re the 4 hourly feeding - at home you would be feeding on demand, not on a structured routine. Can you feed him whenever he wakes at the hospital ? ie do they really have to top him up with formula ? couldn't you request that he go back to sleep after a feed, then you hang around for the next feed ? This will get your milk flowing more than anything, as the formula is denser and takes longer to digest. i guess what i mean is, if you can express whilst there, and he still needs a top up after a feed from you, you could use your expressed milk. or even donated milk, if there's any available.

you may find that actually, when bf only during the day, that he's feeding 3 hourly,not 4, so would be getting more bm - if that makes sense.

also if your boobs feel big then it sounds like maybe your milk is coming in properly now !

god this was a long post, i'm so sorry ! it all sounds positive though moocowme !

they wont let im come home until he has well established 4 hourly feeds. after a top up with the bottle he sleeps intil i get him up for the next four hourly feed.

perhaps i need to be a little bit more forward and ask some questions about this bf stuff as I have no idea really about if he gets enough/how long/should i bother.

moocowme, the insistance on four hourly feeds is not helping your baby and your breastfeeding....very few breastfeeding babies, especially new ones, have four hourly feeds.

I hope you can speak to someone at the hospital who knows about bf, and who can intervene with the staff

we are coming home tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!

this is going to give me more time to work on the bfing and see how it goes and talk to some other people about it.

yesterday the milk looked a thick creamy colour towards the end so i hope it is coming on ok now.

Fantastic news on your baby coming home- congrats.
When DD came out of SCBU I was still in hospital and we stayed there together another few days. The first day out she really surprised me by wanting to be attached pretty much all day. It was quite a shock going from regimented feed times to this insatiable baby. I know now she was trying to stimulate my supply and it is normal. They showed me how to feed lying down so we could rest together and that was a godsend. We dropped the expressed top ups after 3 days and haven't looked back (now 6months). It can work really well even with a bad start.
I feel a bit worried for you as I think you will need someone really knowledgeable to help you get into feeding 'normally' not on a schedule and dropping formula if that's what you want. We missed out on midwife visits due to being in hospital and it was sheer good fortune my HV is also a bf counsellor and really helped us. Do think about calling one of the helplines/ asking if there's a lactation specialist at the hospital. Do you have a partner/ mum who is supportive?

YAY!! - I am sooo happy for you. You must be so excited to be bringing your little bundle home.

I mirror what mamadoc has said, go find a BF clinic immediately and/or get your HV's, community midwives to come around immediately or NCT or La Leche to come around and help you get the feeding sorted to reestablish itself.

My friend who is a BF counsellor told me to do this when I was having problems

Take your baby and you and go to bed for a week, literally, stay in bed and do nothing but feed on demand. Eat well, it takes lots of energy to make milk, feed topless and ensure you are feeding during the night.

She also told me about the following - all of which i tried (but i have a medical problem which causes lack of milk)
Herbs
Fenugreek, fennel tea, blessed thistle - are all used (and have been used for ages) to help increase breast milk. however you have to take a LOT of fenugreek. find out more here

I was given domperidone by my dr, apparently this is commonly given to mummies of prem babies as it stimulates Breast milk. It's actually an anti nausea drug, sold under the name of motilium. But one of its side effects is an increase in breast milk in lactating or relactating women. I found this helped me a bit and helped one of my friends a huge amount. You need to take 1 tablet 3 x a day.

In relation to it passing into the mothers milk, a small amount does. However my LO hasnt/didnt seem to suffer any side effects and in fact domperidone is actually prescribed for babies with reflux, albeit in smaller amounts.

I really, really wish you best of luck and am glad you can finally enjoy your baby.

welcome home, moocowme's baby boy !

well we are home now and someone is going to visit tomorrow to give us some advice.

my boobs ache from all this feeding now. oh well shall have to see what they say tomorrow.

Welcome home! How did the visit go today?

got a list of all the breastfeeding clinics in the area.

now i need to work out how to unfold/fold the pram and we will be off to a clinic on Monday!

still only doing part time bf as it takes so long to feed otherwise and am knackered when i get up to feed at night. still got milk tho as i am managing to bf about 3 times a day and can see it.

Have you been to clinic this morning moocowme? What did they say?