Sleepy baby? Slow milk flow? Low supply?

[Jadefeather7]

Hi

I am trying to bf my 2nd child. With my 1st I really struggled as he was a very difficult baby, would fall asleep at the breast and I wasn’t confident about my supply. I had a lactation consultant visit and she was basically pushing me towards formula as she felt the baby wasn’t transferring milk (I think this was after watching me hand express with only a few drops coming out and watching the babies sucking and lack of swallowing). I’ve tried all the tricks for waking up eg undressing, tickling toes etc and none of them
work or if they do then only for a minute or two.

This time around my 2nd baby also falls asleep at the breast a lot although she continues to suck very lightly. I am topping up with formula as I don’t want to dehydrate her and I don’t have confidence in my supply. My breasts do feel a little hard before a feed but this passes very quickly so maybe I’m not able to store much milk or maybe the flow is so slow that the babies fall asleep?

When I move her off the breast and put her in her cot she wakes up and starts crying so I assume she’s still hungry.

Does anyone have experience of this?

It's very hard to say what your milk supply and milk transfer are like from this description. Most babies wake up when placed in a cot, so that is not evidence of hunger. How old is your baby, how much weight is she gaining per day (averaged out). How many wet nappies in 24 hours? How full your breasts feel and how much you can express are also very poor indicators of milk supply. The best way to increase your supply is to breastfeed or pump every two hours round the clock for a few days.

Wake the baby up by getting their legs out of the baby grow and putting cold drinks on their legs to keep them drinking. It is important babies take in a good amount of liquid and sometimes when they are really small it is easier for them to fall asleep. Monitor wet / dirty nappies to make sure they are getting enough food.

I can’t really use nappies as an indicator because I’m giving formula and I don’t feel confident dropping the formula as I’m worried about dehydrating her

You don't have to drop the formula abruptly. Just gradually decrease it, whilst monitoring to make sure you are getting six heavy wet nappies per 24 hours. If so, there is no risk of dehydration.

I think pump in that case to increase your supply. The more you pump out the more you make - it's supply and demand. Pumping at night increases supply better - something to do with hormones. Good luck. You can ask for support from a breastfeeding midwife or ring La Leche league. Don't pressure yourself. Fed is best.

How much should I drop formula by? She’s having 7 x 50ml feeds in a 24 hour period so guess I could drop each feed by 10ml?

When I pump I hardly get anything maybe 2-3ml

Please don’t take being able to pump or hand express as a way to measure milk. I could hardly express anything! Problem is with formula is that if she is full she won’t have the need to suck and suck and suck to bring up and establish yourself supply. If you drop the formula down and she wants to suck all the time - remember this is normal. Your supply will have adjusted as you have been replacing with formula so you may find that sucking for hours on and off all day and night is needed at first to get the supply back. The key mistake I made with my first was thinking ‘why is she sucking all the time? She’s not getting enough!’ I leaned with my second child that was not the case and the sucking is to make more milk for the coming days and you just have to whack on the lanisoah and sit for hours with them sucking sometimes!

Pumping and hand expressing dont give an accurate indication of milk supply. A friend of mine couldnt pump any milk at all yet exclusively breastfed both her children to 6 months and beyond. Babies are much more efficient at extracting milk than the pump.

Thank you. Roughly how long do they need to suck all day for supply to be established?

Hi Jade

You need to look for signs of active feeding. As the start of a feed, a baby will go really fast, this then slows to a more rhythmic suck-suck-swallow... pause... suck-suck-swallow... pause...

A deep latch will also support your baby to access as much of the breast as possible - how is your latch, is it comfortable for you?

When the time between the pauses during active feeding gets longer, or if your baby is dozing off, some mums try a bit of breast compression (breastfeeding.support/what-is-breast-compression) to increase milk transfer at the breast.

Have you phoned the National Breastfeeding Helpline on 0300 100 0212?

I had this problem.

My first child, a placid one, ended up being horribly underfed as I just kept being told to persevere. She put on hardly any weight until she was weaned at 6 months.

My second was not so placid and was a very unhappy baby. Until I realised she was hungry and guiltily gave her a bottle. I had tried EVERYTHING!! breast feed/pump/breast feed/pump for 48 hours until I cried.

I slowly transferred her from breast to bottle from the age of 6 weeks to 12 weeks by which time I realised there was nothing coming from the breast and went totally onto bottles.

Some people will tell you that being unable to BF is not a 'thing' but it is, people just don't like to talk about it!

Not to say that you can't, but there is no shame in not being able to. My guilt was crushing...

If you baby is under 6 weeks old, with extra feeding/ pumping your supply should increase in a matter of days. If your baby is over 6 weeks old it may not be possible to establish an adequate supply to exclusively breastfeed.

Thanks. I think the latch is fine. I did try breastfeeding support (including a lactation consultant) and to be honest I didn’t find them very helpful.
I’m keen to try but as fleurdeliz said I’m worried that I’m just not able to Bf and I could end up harming my baby as a result. Maybe that’s why the lactation consultant gave up and seemed to be pushing me towards giving more formula rather than less?

Just had the 10 day weight check and she’s dropping weight despite having formula top ups. Have been told to increase the top up for weight re check in 2 days. Feel like I just have to give up :(

No advice to give but just wanted to say I'm in the exact same situation. Going through the motions of putting my 4 week old on the boob but she either sleeps after a few swallows or fights vigorously...the majority of her food is now formula as I can't keep up with her needs...only managing to express 40-60ml in 24 hours. Have tried everything but may just have to accept I'm one of the people who can't breastfeed. She had a big weight loss in the first week and we had to go back to the hospital, so I know what you mean about not wanting to risk her not getting enough. It sucks (pun not intended!)

I hate that you guys are going through this. It was a guilt ridden nightmare for me.

I now have a very healthy, clever four year and can look back on those times and see how awful it was.

Whatever the outcome - you'll be in my position one day. You'll get through this.

X

@overthinker1988 sorry to hear you’re struggling too x

Thank you fleurdeliz. I also have an older child who is perfectly healthy and happy so I won’t feel bad if it doesn’t work out. Having said that if it’s possible I would like to be able to breastfeed or otherwise try to understand the reasons why I can’t x

I’m so glad I came across this thread. I also feel completely crushed about my breastfeeding journey and I am only 8 days in.
She latched well for the first two days but then began refusing the nipple and still now just falls asleep at the nipple no matter what tricks I try. Add in the to mix jaundice, a very sleepy baby and weight loss at her first check and I have been beside myself. We have been expressing 3-4 times a day and giving the other feeds as formula. I’m worried my supply will dry up or not establish correctly but I’m also worried about a dehydrated baby not putting in weight. I am only just managing (mentally) to pump this many times a day and currently get about 240ml a day doing this. Which is fine for now but obviously won’t be enough in the long run.
I’m so surprised by how utterly mentally traumatising feeding is.